## Avodah Zarah Daf 8b

###### Avodah Zarah 8b:1
[Avodah Zarah 8b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:1)

כֹּל תְּלָתִין יוֹמִין, בֵּין אָמַר לֵיהּ מֵחֲמַת הִלּוּלָא וּבֵין לָא אָמַר לֵיהּ מֵחֲמַת הִלּוּלָא — אָסוּר, מִכָּאן וְאֵילָךְ, אִי אָמַר לֵיהּ מֵחֲמַת הִלּוּלָא — אָסוּר, וְאִי לָא אָמַר לֵיהּ מֵחֲמַת הִלּוּלָא — שְׁרֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
during **all** the **thirty days** that follow the wedding celebration, if the gentile invites a Jew to a feast, **whether he said** to the Jew that the feast is **due to the wedding celebration or whether he did not say to him** that the feast is **due to the wedding celebration,** it is **prohibited** to attend, as it is assumed the festivity is part of the wedding celebration. **From this** point **forward, if he said to him** that the feast is **due to the wedding celebration,** it is **prohibited** to participate, **but if he did not say to him** that the feast is **due to the wedding celebration,** it is **permitted** to do so.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:2
[Avodah Zarah 8b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:2)

וְכִי אָמַר לֵיהּ מֵחֲמַת הִלּוּלָא, עַד אֵימַת? אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא: עַד תְּרֵיסַר יַרְחֵי שַׁתָּא. וּמֵעִיקָּרָא מֵאֵימַת אָסוּר? אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרָבָא: מִכִּי רָמוּ שְׂעָרֵי בַּאֲסִינְתֵּי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And** in a case **where he said to him** that the feast is **due to the wedding celebration, until when** is the feast assumed to be connected to idol worship? **Rav Pappa said: Until twelve months of the year** have passed since the wedding. The Gemara asks: **And initially,** before the wedding, **from when is it prohibited? Rav Pappa said in the name of Rava: From** the time **when they cast barley into the mortars [*ba’asintei*]** to prepare beer for the wedding.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:3
[Avodah Zarah 8b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:3)

וּלְבָתַר תְּרֵיסַר יַרְחֵי שַׁתָּא שְׁרֵי? וְהָא רַב יִצְחָק בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב מְשַׁרְשְׁיָא אִיקְּלַע לְבֵי הָהוּא גּוֹי לְבָתַר תְּרֵיסַר יַרְחֵי שַׁתָּא, וְשַׁמְעֵיהּ דְּאוֹדִי, וּפֵירַשׁ וְלָא אֲכַל! שָׁאנֵי רַב יִצְחָק בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב מְשַׁרְשְׁיָא, דְּאָדָם חָשׁוּב הוּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And after the twelve months of the year** have passed since the wedding, is it always **permitted** to participate in a feast? **But Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Mesharshiyya, happened** to come **to the house of a certain gentile after twelve months of the year** had passed since his son’s wedding, **and he heard** the gentile **giving thanks** to his idol for the marriage of his son, **and he withdrew** from the feast **and did not eat** there. The Gemara answers: **Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Mesharshiyya, is different, as he is an important person** and therefore his presence caused the gentile to rejoice.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:4
[Avodah Zarah 8b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:4)

וּקְרָטֵסִים וְכוּ׳. מַאי קְרָטֵסִים? אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: יוֹם שֶׁתָּפְסָה בּוֹ רוֹמִי מַלְכוּת. וְהָתַנְיָא: קְרָטֵסִים וְיוֹם שֶׁתָּפְסָה בּוֹ רוֹמִי מַלְכוּת! אָמַר רַב יוֹסֵף: שְׁתֵּי תְּפִיסוֹת תָּפְסָה רוֹמִי, אַחַת בִּימֵי קְלֵפַּטְרָא מַלְכְּתָא, וְאַחַת שֶׁתָּפְסָה בִּימֵי יְוָנִים.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The mishna teaches: **And Kratesis,** and the day of the festival of their kings. The Gemara asks: **What** is the festival of **Kratesis? Rav Yehuda said** that **Shmuel said:** It commemorates **the day when Rome seized** control of **an empire.** The Gemara asks: **But isn’t it taught** in a *baraita*: Two festivals are **Kratesis and the day when Rome seized** control of **an empire?** This indicates that Kratesis and the day when Rome seized control of an empire are two separate festivals. **Rav Yosef said:** On **two** separate occasions **Rome seized** control of **an empire. One** occurred **in the days of Queen Cleopatra,** when they conquered Egypt, **and one** happened much earlier, **when** Rome **seized** control **in the days of the Greeks.**


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:5
[Avodah Zarah 8b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:5)

דְּכִי אֲתָא רַב דִּימִי אָמַר: תְּלָתִין וּתְרֵין קְרָבֵי עֲבַדוּ רוֹמָאֵי בַּהֲדֵי יַוְנָאֵי, וְלָא יְכַלוּ לְהוּ, עַד דְּשַׁתְּפִינְהוּ לְיִשְׂרָאֵל בַּהֲדַיְיהוּ, וְהָכִי אַתְנוֹ בַּהֲדַיְיהוּ: אִי מִינַּן מַלְכֵי — מִנַּיְיכוּ הִפַּרְכֵי, אִי מִנַּיְיכוּ מַלְכֵי — מִינַּן הִפַּרְכֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara elaborates: **As when Rav Dimi came** from Eretz Yisrael **he said: The Romans waged thirty-two battles with the Greeks but were unable to** defeat **them, until they formed a partnership with the Jewish people** and finally vanquished the Greeks. **And this is the condition that they stipulated with** the Jewish people: **If the kings** come **from among us, the governors [*hiparkhei*]** will come **from among you;** and **if the kings** come **from among you, the governors** will come **from among us.**


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:6
[Avodah Zarah 8b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:6)

וּשְׁלַחוּ לְהוּ רוֹמָאֵי לְיַוְנָאֵי: עַד הָאִידָּנָא עָבֵידְנָא בִּקְרָבָא, הַשְׁתָּא נַעֲבֵיד בְּדִינָא. מַרְגָּלִית וְאֶבֶן טוֹבָה, אֵיזוֹ מֵהֶן יֵעָשֶׂה בָּסִיס לַחֲבֵירוֹ? שְׁלַחוּ לְהוּ: מַרְגָּלִית לְאֶבֶן טוֹבָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And the Romans sent** the following message **to the Greeks: Until now, we** attempted to resolve our conflict **through** fighting **battles; now, let us** settle the matter **by** means of **judgment.** In the case of **a pearl and a precious stone, which** one **of them should serve as a base for the other?** The Greeks **sent them** in response: The **pearl** should serve as the base **for** the **precious stone,** which has a greater value.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:7
[Avodah Zarah 8b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:7)

אֶבֶן טוֹבָה וְאִינָךְ, אֵיזוֹ מֵהֶן יֵעָשֶׂה בָּסִיס לַחֲבֵירוֹ? אֶבֶן טוֹבָה לְאִינָךְ. אִינָךְ וְסֵפֶר תּוֹרָה, אֵיזוֹ מֵהֶן יֵעָשֶׂה בָּסִיס לַחֲבֵירוֹ? אִינָךְ לְסֵפֶר תּוֹרָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Romans further inquired: If there was **a precious stone and an onyx [*innakh*],** a particularly valuable precious stone, **which** one **of them should serve as a base for the other?** The Greeks answered: The **precious stone** should serve as the base **for** the **onyx.** Once again, the Romans asked: In the case of **an onyx and a Torah scroll, which** one **of them should be serve as a base for the other?** The Greeks responded: The **onyx** should serve as the base **for the Torah scroll.**


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:8
[Avodah Zarah 8b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:8)

שְׁלַחוּ לְהוּ: [אִם כֵּן] אֲנַן סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה גַּבַּן וְיִשְׂרָאֵל בַּהֲדַן. כְּפוֹ לְהוּ עֶשְׂרִין וְשֵׁית שְׁנִין, קָמוּ לְהוּ בְּהֵימָנוּתַיְיהוּ בַּהֲדֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, מִכָּאן וְאֵילָךְ אִישְׁתַּעְבַּדוּ בְּהוּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Romans **sent** this response **to them: If** that is **so,** then you should submit to us, as **we have** the **Torah scroll with us, and the Jewish people** are **with us.** The Romans are akin to the precious stone, and they are allied with the Jewish people who are akin to the onyx, and they possess the Torah scroll. The Romans therefore **forced** the Greeks to surrender and took over their world dominance. For **twenty-six years** the Romans **stood faithfully with the Jewish people; from that** point **forward, they subjugated them.**


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:9
[Avodah Zarah 8b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:9)

מֵעִיקָּרָא מַאי דְּרוּשׁ, וּלְבַסּוֹף מַאי דְּרוּשׁ? מֵעִיקָּרָא דְּרוּשׁ ״נִסְעָה וְנֵלֵכָה וְאֵלְכָה לְנֶגְדֶּךָ״, וּלְבַסּוֹף דְּרוּשׁ ״יַעֲבׇר נָא אֲדֹנִי לִפְנֵי עַבְדּוֹ״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **Initially,** when the Romans acted faithfully, **what** verse **did they interpret, and ultimately,** when they subjugated the Jews, **what** verse **did they interpret? Initially, they interpreted** the verse where Esau said to Jacob upon their meeting: **“Let us take our journey, and let us go, and I will go before you”** (Genesis 33:12). In this verse, Esau equates himself to Jacob, prefiguring the initial Roman treatment of the Jews. **And ultimately, they interpreted** the verse that recites Jacob’s response to Esau: **“Let my lord, I pray you, pass over before his servant”** (Genesis 33:14), demonstrating Jacob’s subjugation to Esau, and by extension that of the Jews to Rome.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:10
[Avodah Zarah 8b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:10)

עֶשְׂרִין וְשֵׁית שְׁנִין דְּקָמוּ בְּהֵימָנוּתַיְיהוּ בַּהֲדֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל מְנָא לַן? דְּאָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: כְּשֶׁחָלָה רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל בַּר יוֹסֵי, שְׁלַחוּ לֵיהּ: רַבִּי! אֱמוֹר לָנוּ שְׁנַיִם וּשְׁלֹשָׁה דְּבָרִים שֶׁאָמַרְתָּ לָנוּ מִשּׁוּם אָבִיךָ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: With regard to the **twenty-six years during which** the Romans **stood faithfully with the Jewish people, from where do we** know that this was the case? The Gemara cites a proof. **As Rav Kahana says: When Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, fell ill,** the Sages **sent** the following message **to him:** Our **teacher, tell us two or three statements that you** once **told us in the name of your father,** Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta, as we do not remember the statements precisely.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:11
[Avodah Zarah 8b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:11)

אֲמַר לְהוּ: מֵאָה וּשְׁמֹנִים שָׁנָה קוֹדֶם שֶׁנֶּחֱרַב הַבַּיִת פָּשְׁטָה מַלְכוּת הָרְשָׁעָה עַל יִשְׂרָאֵל, שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה עַד לֹא חָרַב הַבַּיִת גָּזְרוּ טוּמְאָה עַל אֶרֶץ הָעַמִּים וְעַל כְּלֵי זְכוּכִית, אַרְבָּעִים שָׁנָה עַד לֹא חָרַב הַבַּיִת גָּלְתָה סַנְהֶדְרִין וְיָשְׁבָה לָהּ בַּחֲנוּת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, **said to them** the following statements that were passed down to him by his father: **One hundred and eighty years before the** Second **Temple was destroyed, the evil** Roman **Empire stretched forth over Israel** and ruled over them. **Eighty years before the Temple was destroyed,** the Sages **decreed impurity on the land of the nations and on glass vessels. Forty years before the Temple was destroyed, the Sanhedrin was exiled** from the Chamber of Hewn Stone **and sat in the store** near the Temple Mount.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:12
[Avodah Zarah 8b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:12)

לְמַאי הִלְכְתָא? אָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק בַּר אַבְדִּימִי: לוֹמַר, שֶׁלֹּא דָּנוּ דִּינֵי קְנָסוֹת. דִּינֵי קְנָסוֹת סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ? וְהָאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: בְּרַם זָכוּר אוֹתוֹ הָאִישׁ לַטּוֹב, וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה בֶּן בָּבָא שְׁמוֹ, שֶׁאִלְמָלֵא הוּא נִשְׁתַּכְּחוּ דִּינֵי קְנָסוֹת מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל! ״נִשְׁתַּכְּחוּ״? לִגְרְסִינְהוּ!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **With regard to what *halakha*** is it necessary to know where the Sanhedrin would convene? **Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Avdimi said:** It is necessary in order **to say that they no** longer **judged cases of fines.** The Gemara asks: **Does it enter your mind** that at this point the Sanhedrin no longer judged **cases of fines? But doesn’t Rav Yehuda say** that **Rav says: Indeed [*beram*], that man will be remembered favorably, and Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava is his name, as had it not been for him the laws of fines would have been forgotten from** among **the Jewish people.** The Gemara challenges that assertion: **Would** the laws of fines actually **have been forgotten? Let** the scholars **study them,** so they will not be forgotten.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:13
[Avodah Zarah 8b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:13)

אֶלָּא בָּטְלוּ דִּינֵי קְנָסוֹת מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל, שֶׁגָּזְרָה מַלְכוּת הַרְשָׁעָה שְׁמָד עַל יִשְׂרָאֵל: כָּל הַסּוֹמֵךְ יֵהָרֵג, וְכׇל הַנִּסְמָךְ יֵהָרֵג, וְעִיר שֶׁסּוֹמְכִין בָּהּ תֵּחָרֵב, וּתְחוּם שֶׁסּוֹמְכִין בּוֹ יֵעָקֵר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** his intention was to say that **the laws of fines would have ceased** to be implemented **from** among **the Jewish people,** as they would not have been able to adjudicate cases involving these *halakhot* due to a lack of ordained judges. This is **because** at one time **the wicked kingdom** of Rome **issued decrees of religious persecution against the Jewish people** with the aim of abolishing the chain of ordination and the authority of the Sages. They said that **anyone who ordains** judges **will be killed, and anyone who is ordained will be killed, and the city in which they ordain** the judges **will be destroyed, and** the areas around **the boundary** of the city **in which they ordain** judges **will be uprooted.** These measures were intended to discourage the Sages from performing or receiving ordination due to fear for the welfare of the local population.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:14
[Avodah Zarah 8b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:14)

מָה עָשָׂה רַבִּי יְהוּדָה בֶּן בָּבָא? הָלַךְ וְיָשַׁב בֵּין שְׁנֵי הָרִים גְּדוֹלִים, וּבֵין שְׁתֵּי עֲיָירוֹת גְּדוֹלוֹת, בֵּין שְׁנֵי תְּחוּמֵי שַׁבָּת, בֵּין אוּשָׁא לִשְׁפַרְעָם, וְסָמַךְ שָׁם חֲמִשָּׁה זְקֵנִים: רַבִּי מֵאִיר וְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה וְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי וְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן וְרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בֶּן שַׁמּוּעַ, וְרַב אַוְיָא מוֹסִיף: אַף רַבִּי נְחֶמְיָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**What did** Rabbi **Yehuda ben Bava do? He went and sat between two large mountains, and between two large cities,** and **between two Shabbat boundaries: Between Usha and Shefaram,** i.e., in a desolate place that was not associated with any particular city so that he would not endanger anyone not directly involved, **and there he ordained five Elders,** namely: **Rabbi Meir, and Rabbi Yehuda, and Rabbi Shimon, and Rabbi Yosei, and Rabbi Elazar ben Shammua. And Rav Avya adds** that **Rabbi Neḥemya** was **also** among those ordained.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:15
[Avodah Zarah 8b:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:15)

כֵּיוָן שֶׁהִכִּירוּ בָּהֶם אוֹיְבִים, אָמַר לָהֶם: בָּנַי, רוּצוּ! אָמְרוּ לוֹ: רַבִּי, וְאַתָּה מָה תְּהֵא עָלֶיךָ? אָמַר לָהֶם: הֲרֵינִי מוּטָל לִפְנֵיהֶם כְּאֶבֶן שֶׁאֵין לָהּ הוֹפְכִין. אָמְרוּ: לֹא זָזוּ מִשָּׁם עַד שֶׁנָּעֲצוּ לְגוּפוֹ שְׁלֹשׁ מֵאוֹת לוּלְנִיאוֹת שֶׁל בַּרְזֶל, וַעֲשָׂאוּהוּ לְגוּפוֹ כִּכְבָרָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**When** their **enemies discovered them,** Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava **said to** the newly ordained rabbis: **My sons, run** for your lives. **They said to him:** Our **teacher, and what will be with you?** Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava was elderly and unable to run. He **said to them:** In any case, **I am cast before them like a stone that cannot be overturned;** even if you attempt to assist me I will not be able to escape due to my frailty, but if you do not escape without me you will also be killed. People **said** about this incident: The Roman soldiers **did not move from there until they had inserted three hundred iron spears [*lulniot*] into his body, making his body** appear **like a sieve** pierced with many holes. It can be inferred from this episode that there were ordained judges who could hear cases of fines for many years after the destruction of the Temple, in contrast to Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Avdimi’s statement.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:16
[Avodah Zarah 8b:16](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:16)

אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: לָא תֵּימָא דִּינֵי קְנָסוֹת, אֶלָּא שֶׁלֹּא דָּנוּ דִּינֵי נְפָשׁוֹת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak says** in explanation: **Do not say** that after the Sanhedrin was exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone they no longer judged cases of **fines; rather,** emend the statement to say **that they no** longer **judged** cases of **capital law,** as a court does not have the authority to hear capital cases when the Sanhedrin is not sitting in the Chamber of Hewn Stone.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:17
[Avodah Zarah 8b:17](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:17)

מַאי טַעְמָא? כֵּיוָן דַּחֲזוֹ דִּנְפִישִׁי לְהוּ רוֹצְחִין וְלָא יָכְלִי לְמֵידַן, אֲמַרוּ: מוּטָב נִגְלֵי מִמָּקוֹם לְמָקוֹם, כִּי הֵיכִי דְּלָא לִיחַיְּיבוּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara explains: **What is the reason** that the members of the Sanhedrin ceased to meet in their proper place and thereby ended the adjudication of capital cases? **Once they saw that the murderers were so numerous and they were not able to judge** them and punish them with death, **they said:** It is **better that we should be exiled** from the Chamber of Hewn Stone and move **from place to place, so that** offenders **will not be** deemed **liable** to receive the death penalty in a time period when the court does not carry out their sentences.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:18
[Avodah Zarah 8b:18](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:18)

דִּכְתִיב: ״וְעָשִׂיתָ עַל פִּי הַדָּבָר אֲשֶׁר יַגִּידוּ לְךָ מִן הַמָּקוֹם הַהוּא״, מְלַמֵּד שֶׁהַמָּקוֹם גּוֹרֵם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara explains why a court may not adjudicate capital cases once the Sanhedrin has left the Chamber of Hewn Stone. **As it is written: “And you shall do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare to you from that place”** (Deuteronomy 17:10). This verse **teaches that** it is **the place** where the Sanhedrin resides that **causes** the judgment to take place. In other words, if the Sanhedrin has abandoned its proper place, the Chamber of Hewn Stone, all courts must cease judging capital cases.


###### Avodah Zarah 8b:19
[Avodah Zarah 8b:19](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Avodah%20Zarah/r/8b:19)

מֵאָה וּשְׁמֹנִים, וְתוּ לָא? וְהָתָנֵי רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּרַבִּי:

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara returns to the earlier comment of Rabbi Yishmael in the name of his father Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta, that the Roman Empire ruled over Israel one hundred and eighty years before the second Temple was destroyed. The Gemara asks: Did Rome rule over Israel for **one hundred and eighty** years before the destruction of the Temple **and no more? But didn’t Rabbi Yosei the Great,** i.e., Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta himself, **teach:**