## Bava Batra Daf 45b

###### Bava Batra 45b:1
[Bava Batra 45b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:1)

הַמַּפְקִיד אֵצֶל חֲבֵירוֹ בְּעֵדִים – אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לְהַחְזִיר לוֹ בְּעֵדִים? לָא סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ – אֶלָּא הַמַּפְקִיד אֵצֶל חֲבֵירוֹ בְּעֵדִים, צָרִיךְ לְהַחֲזִיר לוֹ בְּעֵדִים.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
in the case of **one who deposits** an item **with another in** the presence of **witnesses** the recipient **need not return** it **to him in** the presence of **witnesses?** If that were to be so, the craftsman could claim that he had returned it to the owner, even though there are no witnesses. That possibility should **not enter your mind. Rather,** in the case of **one who deposits** an item **with another in** the presence of **witnesses,** the recipient **must return** it **to him in** the presence of **witnesses.** Therefore, the craftsman could not have claimed that he returned it to the owner.


###### Bava Batra 45b:2
[Bava Batra 45b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:2)

מֵיתִיבִי אַבָּיֵי: רָאָה עַבְדּוֹ בְּיַד אוּמָּן, וְטַלִּיתוֹ בְּיַד כּוֹבֵס, אָמַר לוֹ: ״מַה טִּיבוֹ אֶצְלְךָ?״ ״אַתָּה מְכַרְתּוֹ לִי״, ״אַתָּה נְתַתּוֹ לִי בְּמַתָּנָה״ – לֹא אָמַר כְּלוּם. ״בְּפָנַי אָמַרְתָּ לוֹ לְמוֹכְרו וְלִיתְּנוֹ לוֹ בְּמַתָּנָה״ – דְּבָרָיו קַיָּימִין.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Abaye raises an objection** to Rabba’s ruling from a *baraita* (*Tosefta* 2:6): There is a case where one **saw his slave in** the **possession of a craftsman, or his cloak in** the **possession of a launderer,** and **says to him: What** is the **nature of its** presence **in your** possession? If the craftsman or launderer replied: **You sold me** the slave or cloak, or: **You gave** the slave or cloak **to me as a gift,** he has **not said anything,** and must return it, since a craftsman does not establish the presumption of ownership. But if the craftsman or launderer replied: **You said in my presence to** someone else **to sell** the slave or cloak to him **or to give** the slave or cloak **to him,** i.e., to sell or give the slave or cloak to the craftsman or launderer himself, **as a gift,** then **his statement is valid.**


###### Bava Batra 45b:3
[Bava Batra 45b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:3)

מַאי שְׁנָא רֵישָׁא וּמַאי שְׁנָא סֵיפָא?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Before Abaya raises his objection, he first clarifies the ruling of the *baraita*. **What is different** in **the first clause** that the craftsman is not deemed credible **and what is different** in **the latter clause** that he is?


###### Bava Batra 45b:4
[Bava Batra 45b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:4)

אָמַר רַבָּה: סֵיפָא – בְּיוֹצֵא מִתַּחַת יְדֵי אַחֵר, וְקָאָמַר לֵיהּ אַחֵר: בְּפָנַי אָמַרְתָּ לוֹ לְמוֹכְרוֹ וְלִיתְּנוֹ בְּמַתָּנָה. מִיגּוֹ דְּאִי בָּעֵי אָמַר לֵיהּ: ״מִינָּךְ זְבַנְתֵּיהּ״, כִּי אָמַר לֵיהּ נָמֵי: ״בְּפָנַי אָמַרְתָּ לוֹ לְמוֹכְרוֹ״ – דְּבָרָיו קַיָּימִין, וּמְהֵימַן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabba said: The latter clause** is stated **with regard to** a case where the slave or cloak **emerges from the possession of another,** and not from the possession of the craftsman, **and** this **other** person **is saying to** the owner: **You said in my presence to** the craftsman **to sell** the slave or cloak **or to give** the slave or cloak to me **as gift.** This person is deemed credible despite acknowledging that he received it from the craftsman, **since if he had wanted** to, he could have **said to** the owner of the item: **I purchased** the slave or cloak **from you.** As this third party is not a craftsman, he is able to establish the presumption of ownership through possession and would be deemed credible. Therefore, **when** he **says to him as well: You said to him in my presence to sell** the slave or cloak, **his statement is valid, and he is** also **deemed credible.**


###### Bava Batra 45b:5
[Bava Batra 45b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:5)

קָתָנֵי מִיהַת רֵישָׁא: ״רָאָה״. הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִי דְּאִיכָּא עֵדִים – לְמָה לִי רָאָה? נַיְתֵי עֵדִים וְנִשְׁקוֹל! אֶלָּא לָאו דְּלֵיכָּא עֵדִים? וְכִי רָאָה מִיהָא תָּפֵיס לֵיהּ!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
After having clarified the ruling of the *baraita*, Abaye presents his objection: **In any event, the first clause** of the *baraita* **teaches** that the case where a craftsman is not deemed credible is where the owner **saw** the slave or cloak in the possession of the craftsman. **What are the circumstances? If** it is referring to **where there are witnesses** to the fact that the owner gave the slave or cloak to the craftsman for training or cleaning, respectively, **why do I** need for the owner to have **seen** them in the craftsman’s possession? Let the owner simply **bring witnesses and take** back his slave or cloak. **Rather, is it not** referring to a case **where there are no witnesses, and** nevertheless, **when** the owner **saw** the slave or cloak in the craftsman’s possession, he **may seize** the slave or cloak **in any case?** This contradicts Rabba’s statement that the decisive factor is whether the transfer took place in the presence of witnesses.


###### Bava Batra 45b:6
[Bava Batra 45b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:6)

לָא, לְעוֹלָם דְּאִיכָּא עֵדִים; וְהוּא דְּרָאָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rabba answers this objection: **No,** that is not the case of the *baraita*. **Actually,** it is referring to a case **where there are witnesses, and** nevertheless, **that is** the *halakha*, that he may seize the slave or cloak only **where** he **saw** it currently in the possession of the craftsman. But if there are no witnesses that it is currently in his possession, he would be deemed credible if he were to claim that he purchased the slave or cloak from the owner, as he could have claimed that he returned the slave or cloak.


###### Bava Batra 45b:7
[Bava Batra 45b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:7)

וְהָא אַתְּ הוּא דְּאָמְרַתְּ: הַמַּפְקִיד אֵצֶל חֲבֵירוֹ בְּעֵדִים, צָרִיךְ לְפוֹרְעוֹ בְּעֵדִים! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הֲדַרִי בִּי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Abaye asked him: **But you are** the one **who said:** In the case of **one who deposits** an item **with another in** the presence of **witnesses,** the recipient **must return** it **to him in** the presence of **witnesses.** Therefore, if it was given to the craftsman in the presence of witnesses, he would not have the ability to make a more advantageous claim [*miggo*] that he returned it. Rabba **said to** Abaye: **I retracted** that opinion and hold that he may return it even when not in the presence of witnesses.


###### Bava Batra 45b:8
[Bava Batra 45b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:8)

מֵתִיב רָבָא לְסַיּוֹעֵי לְרַבָּה: הַנּוֹתֵן טַלִּיתוֹ לְאוּמָּן, אוּמָּן אוֹמֵר: שְׁתַּיִם קָצַצְתָּ לִי, וְהַלָּה אוֹמֵר: לֹא קָצַצְתִּי לְךָ אֶלָּא אַחַת. כׇּל זְמַן שֶׁהַטַּלִּית בְּיַד אוּמָּן – עַל בַּעַל הַבַּיִת לְהָבִיא רְאָיָה. נְתָנָהּ לוֹ – בִּזְמַנּוֹ, נִשְׁבָּע וְנוֹטֵל. עָבַר זְמַנּוֹ, הַמּוֹצִיא מֵחֲבֵירוֹ עָלָיו הָרְאָיָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rava raises an objection** from a *baraita* **to support** the opinion of **Rabba:** With regard to **one who gives his cloak to a craftsman,** and then the **craftsman says: You fixed two** dinars as **my** payment, **and that one,** the owner, **says: I fixed** only **one** dinar as **your** payment, then, **so long as** it is so **that the cloak is in** the **possession of** the **craftsman,** it is incumbent **upon** the **owner to bring proof** that the fee was one dinar. If the craftsman **gave** the cloak back **to him,** then there are two scenarios: If the claim is lodged **in its** proper **time,** i.e., on the day of the cloak’s return, then the craftsman **takes an oath and receives** the two dinars. **But** if **its** proper **time passed,** then **the burden of proof rests upon the claimant,** and the craftsman would need to bring proof that the fee was two dinars.


###### Bava Batra 45b:9
[Bava Batra 45b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Batra/r/45b:9)

הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִי דְּאִיכָּא עֵדִים, לִיחְזֵי עֵדִים מַאי קָאָמְרִי!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rava continues with an analysis of this *baraita*: **What are the circumstances** of the case discussed in this *baraita*? **If** it is a case **where there are witnesses** who saw the transfer of the item, **let us see what the witnesses say** about the fee, as they presumably heard the details of the arrangement.