## Bava Metzia Daf 23b

###### Bava Metzia 23b:1
[Bava Metzia 23b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:1)

וּמַחְרוֹזוֹת שֶׁל דָּגִים. אַמַּאי? לֶהֱוֵי קֶשֶׁר סִימָן! בְּקִטְרָא דְּצַיָּידֵא, דְּכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא הָכִי מְקַטְּרִי. וְלֶהֱוֵי מִנְיָן סִימָן! בְּמִנְיָנָא דְּשָׁוִין.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The mishna teaches that **strings of fish** are among the list of found items that one may keep. The Gemara asks: **Why** not **let the knot** with which the fish are tied serve as **a distinguishing mark?** The Gemara answers: The mishna is referring **to the fisherman’s knot with which everyone ties** his fish, which is not distinctive. The Gemara asks: **But** why not **let the number** of fish tied on the string serve as **a distinguishing mark?** The Gemara answers: The mishna is referring **to a number** of fish **that is equal** to that on all strings of fish in that area.


###### Bava Metzia 23b:2
[Bava Metzia 23b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:2)

בְּעוֹ מִינֵּיהּ מֵרַב שֵׁשֶׁת: [מִנְיָן] הָוֵי סִימָן אוֹ לָא הָוֵי סִימָן? אֲמַר לְהוּ רַב שֵׁשֶׁת: תְּנֵיתוּהָ, מָצָא כְּלֵי כֶסֶף וּכְלֵי נְחוֹשֶׁת, גִּסְטְרוֹן שֶׁל אֲבָר, וְכׇל כְּלֵי מַתָּכוֹת – הֲרֵי זֶה לֹא יַחֲזִיר עַד שֶׁיִּתֵּן אוֹת, אוֹ עַד שֶׁיְּכַוֵּין מִשְׁקְלוֹתָיו. וּמִדְּמִשְׁקָל הָוֵי סִימָן, מִדָּה וּמִנְיָן נָמֵי הָוֵי סִימָן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Sages **raised a dilemma before Rav Sheshet:** In items that have no other distinguishing mark, **is** their **number a distinguishing mark or is it not a distinguishing mark? Rav Sheshet said to them: You learned it** in a *baraita*: If one found **silver vessels, copper vessels, fragments of lead, and any metal vessels, that** person who found them **shall not return** the item to its owner **until** the owner **provides** a distinguishing **sign or until** the owner **accurately provides its weight. And from** the fact **that weight** serves as **a distinguishing mark, measure and number also** serve as **a distinguishing mark.**


###### Bava Metzia 23b:3
[Bava Metzia 23b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:3)

וַחֲתִיכוֹת שֶׁל בָּשָׂר וְכוּ׳. אַמַּאי? לֶהֱוֵי מַשְׁקְלָא סִימָן! בְּמַשְׁקְלָא דְּשָׁוִין. וְתֶהֱוֵי חֲתִיכָה גּוּפַהּ סִימָן, אוֹ דְּדָפְקָא אוֹ דְּאַטְמָא! מִי לָא תַּנְיָא: מָצָא חֲתִיכוֹת דָּגִים וְדָג נָשׁוּךְ – חַיָּיב לְהַכְרִיז. חָבִיּוֹת שֶׁל יַיִן וְשֶׁל שֶׁמֶן וְשֶׁל תְּבוּאָה וְשֶׁל גְּרוֹגְרוֹת וְשֶׁל זֵיתִים – הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ שֶׁלּוֹ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The mishna teaches that **cuts of meat** are among the list of found items that one may keep. The Gemara asks: **Why** not **let the weight** of the cut serve as **a distinguishing mark?** The Gemara answers: The mishna is referring **to a weight that is equal,** i.e., all cuts of meat in that area are of that weight. The Gemara asks: **But** why not **let the cut** of meat **itself** serve as **a distinguishing mark,** as it came, for example, **either** from **the neck or** from **the thigh** of the animal? **Isn’t it taught** in a *baraita*: If **one found cuts of fish, or a fish** that **was bitten,** he is **obligated to proclaim** his find, and if he found **barrels of wine, or of oil, or of grain, or of dried figs, or of olives, these** belong **to him?** Apparently, the distinguishing mark in the cuts of fish is the part of the fish from which they were cut.


###### Bava Metzia 23b:4
[Bava Metzia 23b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:4)

הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן? בִּדְאִיכָּא סִימָנָא בִּפְסָקָא, כִּי הָא דְּרַבָּה בַּר רַב הוּנָא מְחַתֵּיךְ לֵיהּ אַתְּלָת קַרְנָתָא. דַּיְקָא נָמֵי דְּקָתָנֵי דּוּמְיָא דְּדָג נָשׁוּךְ, שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: **With what are we dealing here** in the *baraita*? It is **in** a case **where there is a distinguishing mark in the** shape of **the cut, as** in **that** case **of Rabba bar Rav Huna** who would **cut** the meat **with three corners,** forming a triangle. The distinguishing mark is not the part of the fish from where it had been cut. The language of the *baraita* **is also precise, as** the case of cuts of fish **is taught** juxtaposed to and **similar to a fish** that **was bitten,** in which case the bite is a distinguishing mark. The Gemara concludes: **Learn from it** that it is the shape of the cut that is a distinguishing mark, not the place from where it was cut.


###### Bava Metzia 23b:5
[Bava Metzia 23b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:5)

אָמַר מָר: חָבִיּוֹת שֶׁל יַיִן וְשֶׁל שֶׁמֶן וְשֶׁל תְּבוּאָה וְשֶׁל גְּרוֹגְרוֹת וְשֶׁל זֵיתִים – הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ שֶׁלּוֹ. וְהָא תְּנַן: כַּדֵּי יַיִן וְכַדֵּי שֶׁמֶן חַיָּיב לְהַכְרִיז! אָמַר רַבִּי זֵירָא אָמַר רַב: מַתְנִיתִין בְּרָשׁוּם. מִכְּלָל דְּבָרַיְיתָא בְּפָתוּחַ, אִי בְּפָתוּחַ – אֲבֵידָה מִדַּעַת הִיא. אָמַר רַב הוֹשַׁעְיָא: בְּמֵצִיף.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**The Master said** in the *baraita*: If one found **barrels of wine, or of oil, or of grain, or of dried figs, or of olives, these** belong **to him.** The Gemara asks: **But didn’t we learn** in a mishna (25a): With regard to **jugs of wine or jugs of oil,** if one finds any of these he is **obligated to proclaim** his finding. **Rabbi Zeira said** that **Rav said: The mishna** is referring **to** a case of **sealed** jugs. Each person seals his jugs and barrels in a unique manner. Therefore, the seal constitutes a distinguishing mark. The Gemara asks: One may conclude **by inference that the *baraita*** is referring **to** a case of **open** barrels, and **if** it is referring **to** a case of **open** barrels, **it is a deliberate loss.** Since the wine in open barrels will spoil, it is obvious that one need not return it to the owner. **Rav Hoshaya says:** The *baraita* is referring **to** a case where one **covers** the barrel with the lid but does not seal it.


###### Bava Metzia 23b:6
[Bava Metzia 23b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:6)

אַבָּיֵי אָמַר: אֲפִילּוּ תֵּימָא אִידֵּי וְאִידֵּי בְּרָשׁוּם, וְלָא קַשְׁיָא: כָּאן – קוֹדֶם שֶׁנִּפְתְּחוּ הָאוֹצָרוֹת, כָּאן – לְאַחַר שֶׁנִּפְתְּחוּ הָאוֹצָרוֹת. כִּי הָא דְּרַב יַעֲקֹב בַּר אַבָּא אַשְׁכַּח חָבִיתָא דְחַמְרָא לְאַחַר שֶׁנִּפְתְּחוּ הָאוֹצָרוֹת, אֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּאַבָּיֵי, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: זִיל שְׁקוֹל לְנַפְשָׁךְ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Abaye said: You** can **even say that** both **this** mishna **and that** *baraita* are referring **to** jugs and barrels that are **sealed, and** it is **not difficult. Here,** in the mishna, where one is required to return the jugs, it is referring to a case where one found the jugs **before the storehouses** of wine **were opened.** At that point, the distinguishing mark of the seal proves that the jug belongs to its owner. **There,** in the *baraita*, where one is not required to return the barrels, it is referring to a case where one found the barrels **after the storehouses** of wine **were opened.** Since the storekeepers sold their barrels to the public, the seal would no longer serve as an indicator of the identity of the owner. This is just **as** in **that** case **where Rav Ya’akov bar Abba found a barrel of wine after the storehouses were opened. He came before Abaye** to ascertain what he should do with the barrel. Abaye **said to him: Go take** the barrel **for yourself.**


###### Bava Metzia 23b:7
[Bava Metzia 23b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:7)

בְּעָא מִינֵּיהּ רַב בִּיבִי מֵרַב נַחְמָן: מָקוֹם הָוֵי סִימָן, אוֹ לָא הָוֵי סִימָן? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: תְּנֵיתוּהָ, מָצָא חָבִיּוֹת שֶׁל יַיִן וְשֶׁל שֶׁמֶן וְשֶׁל תְּבוּאָה וְשֶׁל גְּרוֹגְרוֹת וְשֶׁל זֵיתִים – הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ שֶׁלּוֹ. וְאִי סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ דְּמָקוֹם הָוֵי סִימָן, לִכְרוֹז מָקוֹם! אָמַר רַב זְבִיד, הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן? בְּרַקְּתָא דְנַהֲרָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ **Rav Beivai raised a dilemma before Rav Naḥman: Is** the **location** where the lost item was found **a distinguishing mark, or is it not a distinguishing mark?** Rav Naḥman **said to him** that **you learned it** in the *baraita*: If one **found barrels of wine, or of oil, or of grain, or of dried figs, or of olives, these** belong **to him. And if it enters your mind that location is a distinguishing mark, let** the finder **proclaim** what he found, and have the **location** serve as a distinguishing mark. **Rav Zevid said: With what are we dealing here?** We are dealing with the case of a barrel that was found **on the bank of the river.** Since it is the place where ships dock and merchandise belonging to many people is loaded and unloaded, the bank of a river cannot serve as a distinguishing mark.


###### Bava Metzia 23b:8
[Bava Metzia 23b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:8)

אָמַר רַב מָרִי: מַאי טַעְמָא אֲמַרוּ רַבָּנַן רַקְּתָא דְנַהֲרָא לָא הָוֵי סִימָן? דְּאָמְרִינַן לֵיהּ: כִּי הֵיכִי דְּאִתְרְמִי לְדִידָךְ אִתְרְמִי נָמֵי לְחַבְרָךְ. אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי, אָמַר רַב מָרִי: מַאי טַעְמָא אֲמַרוּ רַבָּנַן מָקוֹם לָא הָוֵי סִימָן? דְּאָמְרִינַן לֵיהּ: כִּי הֵיכִי דְּאִתְרְמִי לְדִידָךְ הַאי מְקוֹם, אִתְרְמִי נָמֵי לְחַבְרָךְ הַאי מָקוֹם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Mari said: What is the reason that the Sages said** that in the case of a lost item, the location of **the bank of a river is not a distinguishing mark?** It is **because we say to** one seeking to reclaim his item by providing its location on the bank of a river: **Just as it happened** that **you** lost an item there, **it also happened** that **another** person lost an item there. **Some say** a slightly different version of that which **Rav Mari said: What is the reason that the Sages said** that **location is not a distinguishing mark?** It is **because we say to** one seeking to reclaim his item by providing its location: **Just as it happened** that **you** placed an item in **that place, it also happened** that **another** placed an item in **that place.**


###### Bava Metzia 23b:9
[Bava Metzia 23b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:9)

הָהוּא גַּבְרָא דְּאַשְׁכַּח כּוּפְרָא בֵּי מַעֲצַרְתָּא, אֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: זִיל שְׁקוֹל לְנַפְשָׁךְ. חַזְיֵיהּ דַּהֲוָה קָא מְחַסֵּם, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: זִיל פְּלוֹג לֵיהּ לְחִיָּיא בְּרִי מִינֵּיהּ. לֵימָא קָא סָבַר רַב מָקוֹם לָא הָוֵי סִימָן? אָמַר רַבִּי אַבָּא: מִשּׁוּם יֵאוּשׁ בְּעָלִים נָגְעוּ בָּהּ, דַּחֲזָא דְּקָדְחִי בֵּיהּ חִלְפֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara relates: There was **a certain man who found pitch** near **the winepress. He came before Rav** to ascertain what he should do with the pitch. Rav **said to him: Go take** the pitch **for yourself.** Rav **saw that** the man **was hesitating,** uncertain that he was entitled to the pitch. Rav, in an attempt to allay his qualms, **said to him: Go divide it with Ḥiyya my son,** as Rav would certainly not want his son to take a share of a stolen item. The Gemara suggests: **Let us say that Rav holds that location is not a distinguishing mark. Rabbi Abba said:** That is not Rav’s reasoning. Rather, it is **due to** the **despair of its owner** that the Sages **touched upon** this matter and permitted the finder to keep such a found item. **As,** Rav **saw that grass was growing through** the pitch, indicating that it had been there for an extended period.


###### Bava Metzia 23b:10
[Bava Metzia 23b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:10)

רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר אוֹמֵר וְכוּ׳. מַאי אַנְפּוּרְיָא? אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: כֵּלִים חֲדָשִׁים שֶׁלֹּא שְׂבָעָתַן הָעַיִן. הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִי אִית בְּהוּ סִימָן – כִּי לֹא שְׂבָעָתַן הָעַיִן מַאי הָוֵי? אִי דְּלֵית בְּהוּ סִימָן – כִּי שְׂבָעָתַן הָעַיִן מַאי הָוֵי?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The mishna teaches: **Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says:** If one finds any *anpurya* vessels he is not obligated to proclaim his find. The Gemara asks: **What are *anpurya*** vessels? **Rav Yehuda says** that **Shmuel says:** They are **new vessels, as the eye** of its purchaser has **not** yet **sufficiently seen them** to be able to recognize them. The Gemara asks: **What are the circumstances? If there is a distinguishing mark on** the vessels, **when the eye** of its purchaser has **not** yet **sufficiently seen them, what of it?** He can describe the mark after even a short glance and claim his item. **If there is no distinguishing mark on** the vessels, then **when the eye** of the one who purchases them has **sufficiently seen them, what of it?**


###### Bava Metzia 23b:11
[Bava Metzia 23b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Bava%20Metzia/r/23b:11)

לְעוֹלָם דְּלֵית בְּהוּ סִימָן – נָפְקָא מִינַּהּ לְאַהְדּוֹרֵי לְצוּרְבָּא מֵרַבָּנַן בִּטְבִיעוּת עֵינָא. שְׂבָעָתַן הָעַיִן – קִים לֵיהּ בְּגַוַּיְיהוּ וּמַהְדְּרִינַן לֵיהּ. כִּי לֹא שְׂבָעָתַן הָעַיִן – לָא קִים לֵיהּ בְּגַוַּיְיהוּ, וְלָא מַהְדְּרִינַן לֵיהּ, דְּאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: בְּהָנֵי תְּלָת מִילֵּי עֲבִידִי רַבָּנַן דִּמְשַׁנּוּ בְּמִלַּיְיהוּ – בְּמַסֶּכֶת, וּבְפוּרְיָא

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: **Actually,** it is a vessel **in which there is no distinguishing mark, and the** practical **difference** is with regard **to returning** the vessel **to a Torah scholar** on the basis **of visual recognition.** When **the eye** of a Torah scholar has **sufficiently seen them he is certain about them, and we return** a lost item **to him** on the basis of his description of the vessel. **When the eye** of a Torah scholar has **not sufficiently seen them, he is not certain about them, and we do not return** a lost item **to him, as Rav Yehuda says** that **Shmuel says: With regard to these three matters** alone, it **is normal** for **Sages to amend their statements** and deviate from the truth: **With regard to a tractate,** if he is asked whether he studied a particular tractate, he may humbly say that he did not, even if he did. **And with regard to a bed,** if he is asked whether he slept in a particular bed, he may say that he did not, to avoid shame in case some unseemly residue is found on the bed.