## Ketubot Daf 36b

###### Ketubot 36b:1
[Ketubot 36b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:1)

אִי דְּקָא טָעֵין טַעֲנַת דָּמִים — הָכִי נָמֵי. הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן — דְּקָטָעֵין טַעֲנַת פֶּתַח פָּתוּחַ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: **If** he **proffers a claim** that there was no **blood** after consummating the marriage, **indeed** he can cause her to lose her marriage contract with that claim. However, **with what are we dealing here** in the *baraita*? We are dealing **with** one **who proffers a claim** that he encountered an **open entrance,** i.e., there was no hymen. As the hymen of an adult woman is no longer completely intact, the claim is of no consequence.


###### Ketubot 36b:2
[Ketubot 36b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:2)

סוֹמְכוֹס אוֹמֵר מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי מֵאִיר: סוֹמָא אֵין לָהּ טַעֲנַת בְּתוּלִים. מַאי טַעְמָא דְּסוֹמְכוֹס? אָמַר רַבִּי זֵירָא: מִפְּנֵי שֶׁנֶּחְבֶּטֶת עַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע. כּוּלְּהוּ נָמֵי חַבּוֹטֵי מִיחַבְּטִי? כּוּלְּהוּ, רוֹאוֹת וּמַרְאוֹת לְאִמָּן. זוֹ, אֵינָהּ רוֹאָה וְאֵינָהּ מַרְאָה לְאִמָּהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The *baraita* continues: **Sumakhos says in the name of Rabbi Meir: A blind** woman **does not have a claim concerning virginity.** The Gemara asks: **What is the rationale** for the statement **of Sumakhos? Rabbi Zeira said: Due to** the fact **that** a blind woman **is struck** by falling **onto the ground,** causing her hymen to break. The Gemara asks: **All** girls tend **to be struck** by falling onto the ground **as well;** what is unique about blind girls? The Gemara answers: When **all of** the other girls fall, they **see** the blood flow **and show** it to **their mother.** The mother would then examine them and discover that her hymen was broken. **This** blind girl **does not see** the flow of blood **and** therefore **does not show** it too **her mother.** Due to that possibility, the man who married the blind woman must have considered the likelihood that her hymen is not intact, and therefore he cannot make a claim concerning virginity.


###### Ketubot 36b:3
[Ketubot 36b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:3)

וְהַיּוֹצֵאת מִשּׁוּם שֵׁם רָע אֵין לָהּ לֹא קְנָס וְלֹא פִּיתּוּי. הַיּוֹצֵאת מִשּׁוּם שֵׁם רָע — בַּת סְקִילָה הִיא! אָמַר רַב שֵׁשֶׁת: הָכִי קָאָמַר: מִי שֶׁיָּצָא עָלֶיהָ שֵׁם רַע בְּיַלְדוּתָהּ — אֵין לָהּ לֹא קְנָס וְלֹא פִּיתּוּי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The previous *baraita* concluded: **And one who leaves** her husband **due to a bad reputation has neither a fine** for rape **nor** a fine for **seduction.** The initial understanding is that the *baraita* is referring to a young betrothed woman who leaves her husband because she committed adultery. The Gemara asks: **One who leaves** her husband **due to a bad reputation is subject to stoning** as an adulteress; clearly she is not entitled to the fine. **Rav Sheshet said: This is what** the *baraita* **is saying: One about whom a bad reputation emerged in her youth** that she engaged in sexual relations **has neither a fine** for rape **nor** a fine for **seduction,** as the assumption is that she is no longer a virgin.


###### Ketubot 36b:4
[Ketubot 36b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:4)

אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא, שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ: הַאי שְׁטָרָא רִיעָא לָא מַגְבֵּינַן בֵּיהּ. הֵיכִי דָמֵי? אִילֵּימָא דִּנְפַק קָלָא עֲלֵיהּ דִּשְׁטָרָא (דְּ)זַיְיפָא הוּא, דִּכְווֹתַהּ הָכָא, דִּנְפַק עֲלַהּ קָלָא דְּזַנַּאי, וְהָא אָמַר רָבָא: יָצָא לָהּ שֵׁם מְזַנָּה בָּעִיר — אֵין חוֹשְׁשִׁין לָהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Pappa said: Conclude from it** with regard to **this tainted document** whose authenticity was compromised that **we do not collect** a debt **with it.** The Gemara asks: **What are the circumstances? If you say that a rumor emerged about it that it is a forged document,** and in **the corresponding** case **here,** the case of a bad reputation, **that a rumor emerged about her that she engaged in** promiscuous **sexual relations; but didn’t Rava say:** If **a rumor emerged about** a woman **in a town** as **one who engaged in** promiscuous **sexual relations, one** need **not be concerned about it?** The assumption is that it is insubstantial, as a reputation based on rumor is disregarded.


###### Ketubot 36b:5
[Ketubot 36b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:5)

אֶלָּא דַּאֲתוֹ בֵּי תְרֵי וְאָמְרִי: לְדִידְהוּ תְּבַעְתַּנְהִי בְּאִיסּוּרָא. דִּכְווֹתַהּ הָכָא: דַּאֲתוֹ בֵּי תְרֵי וְאָמְרִי: לְדִידְהוּ אֲמַר לְהוּ: ״זַיִּיפוּ לִי״. בִּשְׁלָמָא הָתָם — שְׁכִיחִי פְּרוּצִין. אֶלָּא הָכָא, אִם הוּא הוּחְזַק, כׇּל יִשְׂרָאֵל מִי הוּחְזְקוּ? הָכָא נָמֵי: כֵּיוָן דְּקָא מְהַדַּר אַזִּיּוּפָא, אֵימַר, זַיּוֹפֵי זַיֵּיף וּכְתַב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** it is **that two** witnesses **came and said: She propositioned us** to engage **in forbidden** relations, and in **the corresponding** case **here** with regard to a document, it is a case **where two** people **came and said** that **he said to us: Forge** a document **for me.** The Gemara asks: **Granted, there,** in the case of the rumor of promiscuity, **immoral men are common,** and even if they refused her, presumably she found someone willing to engage in relations with her. **However, here,** with regard to forgery, even **if he assumed presumptive status** as one seeking a forgery, **do all the Jewish people assume presumptive status** as forgers? Why is the assumption that the document was forged? The Gemara answers: **Here too, since he is** actively **seeking a forgery, say that** he **forged** the document **and wrote** it. Even if others are not suspected of cooperating with him, there is suspicion with regard to the document. Therefore, the case of the tainted document and the woman with a bad reputation are comparable.


###### Ketubot 36b:6
[Ketubot 36b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:6)

**מַתְנִי׳** וְאֵלּוּ שֶׁאֵין לָהֶן קְנָס: הַבָּא עַל הַגִּיּוֹרֶת וְעַל הַשְּׁבוּיָה וְעַל הַשִּׁפְחָה שֶׁנִּפְדּוּ וְשֶׁנִּתְגַּיְּירוּ וְשֶׁנִּשְׁתַּחְרְרוּ, יְתֵירוֹת עַל בְּנוֹת שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים וְיוֹם אֶחָד. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: שְׁבוּיָה שֶׁנִּפְדֵּית — הֲרֵי הִיא בִּקְדוּשָּׁתָהּ, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁגְּדוֹלָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**MISHNA:** **And these** are the cases of young women **who do not** have **a fine** paid to their fathers when they are raped or seduced: **One who has intercourse with a convert or with a captive** woman **or with a** gentile **maidservant, who were redeemed, converted, or emancipated** when they were **more than three years and one day** old, as presumably they are no longer virgins. **Rabbi Yehuda says: A captive** woman **who was redeemed** remains **in her** state of **sanctity even though** she is **an adult,** as it cannot be stated that she certainly engaged in intercourse.


###### Ketubot 36b:7
[Ketubot 36b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:7)

הַבָּא עַל בִּתּוֹ, עַל בַּת בִּתּוֹ, עַל בַּת בְּנוֹ, עַל בַּת אִשְׁתּוֹ, עַל בַּת בְּנָהּ, עַל בַּת בִּתָּהּ — אֵין לָהֶן קְנָס, מִפְּנֵי שֶׁמִּתְחַיֵּיב בְּנַפְשׁוֹ, שֶׁמִּיתָתָן בִּידֵי בֵּית דִּין. וְכׇל הַמִּתְחַיֵּיב בְּנַפְשׁוֹ אֵין מְשַׁלֵּם מָמוֹן, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְאִם לֹא יִהְיֶה אָסוֹן עָנוֹשׁ יֵעָנֵשׁ״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The mishna resumes its list of the cases of young women who are not entitled to a fine when raped or seduced by the following men: In the case of **one who engages in intercourse with his daughter, with his daughter’s daughter, with his son’s daughter, with his wife’s daughter, with her son’s daughter,** or **with her daughter’s daughter; they do not** receive payment of **a fine.** That is **due to** the fact **that he is liable** to receive the **death** penalty, and **that their death** penalty is administered by **the court, and anyone who is liable** to receive the **death** penalty **does not pay money, as it is stated: “And yet no harm follow, he shall be punished”** (Exodus 21:22). This verse indicates that if a woman dies and the one who struck her is liable to receive the death penalty, he is exempt from payment.


###### Ketubot 36b:8
[Ketubot 36b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:8)

**גְּמָ׳** אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: רַבִּי יְהוּדָה וְרַבִּי דּוֹסָא אָמְרוּ דָּבָר אֶחָד. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה — הָא דַּאֲמַרַן. רַבִּי דּוֹסָא, דְּתַנְיָא: שְׁבוּיָה — אוֹכֶלֶת בִּתְרוּמָה, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי דּוֹסָא. אָמַר רַבִּי דּוֹסָא: וְכִי מָה עָשָׂה לָהּ עַרְבִי הַלָּז? וְכִי מִפְּנֵי שֶׁמִּיעֵךְ לָהּ בֵּין דַּדֶּיהָ, פְּסָלָהּ מִן הַכְּהוּנָּה?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**GEMARA:** **Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Dosa said one** and the same **thing** with regard to a captive woman. The statement of **Rabbi Yehuda** is **that** which **we said** in the mishna. The statement of **Rabbi Dosa** is **as it is taught** in a *baraita*: **A captive** daughter or wife of a priest, who was redeemed, **partakes of *teruma*;** this is **the statement of Rabbi Dosa.** In explanation, **Rabbi Dosa said: And what did this Arab** who took her captive **do to her? And due to** the fact **that he** lasciviously **squeezed between her breasts,** did he **render her unfit** to marry into **the priesthood?** Although he may have taken liberties with her, there is no concern that he had relations with her.


###### Ketubot 36b:9
[Ketubot 36b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:9)

אָמַר רַבָּה: דִּלְמָא לָא הִיא, עַד כָּאן לָא קָאָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה הָכָא, אֶלָּא שֶׁלֹּא יְהֵא חוֹטֵא נִשְׂכָּר? אֲבָל הָתָם — כְּרַבָּנַן סְבִירָא לֵיהּ. אִי נָמֵי: עַד כָּאן לָא קָאָמַר רַבִּי דּוֹסָא הָתָם, אֶלָּא בִּתְרוּמָה דְּרַבָּנַן. אֲבָל קְנָס דְּאוֹרָיְיתָא — כְּרַבָּנַן סְבִירָא לֵיהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabba said: Perhaps that is not so,** and their opinions differ. Perhaps **Rabbi Yehuda states** his opinion **only here** with regard to payment of a fine, **so that** the **sinner will not profit** through exemption from the fine because this girl was taken captive in her youth. **However, there,** with regard to *teruma*, **he holds in accordance with** the opinion of **the Rabbis,** and she is unfit to marry a priest. **Alternatively,** there is another distinction between their opinions. Perhaps **Rabbi Dosa stated** his opinion **only there, with regard to *teruma*** whose legal status today is **by rabbinic** law, and therefore he rules leniently. **However,** with regard to payment of a **fine,** which is mandated **by Torah** law, **he holds in accordance with** the opinion of **the Rabbis,** and the rapist is exempt from payment based on the principle: The burden of proof is incumbent upon the claimant, and she cannot prove that her captors did not engage in intercourse with her and that she is a virgin.


###### Ketubot 36b:10
[Ketubot 36b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:10)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וְטַעְמֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי יְהוּדָה הָכָא, שֶׁלֹּא יְהֵא חוֹטֵא נִשְׂכָּר הוּא? וְהָא תַּנְיָא, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: שְׁבוּיָה שֶׁנִּשְׁבֵּית — הֲרֵי הִיא בִּקְדוּשָּׁתָהּ, אֲפִילּוּ בַּת עֶשֶׂר שָׁנִים — כְּתוּבָּתָהּ מָאתַיִם. וְהָתָם מַאי ״שֶׁלֹּא יְהֵא חוֹטֵא נִשְׂכָּר״ אִיכָּא? הָתָם נָמֵי, דִּלְמָא מִימַּנְעִי וְלָא נָסְבִי לַהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Abaye said to** Rabba: **And is the rationale** for the opinion of **Rabbi Yehuda here,** in the case of a fine, to ensure **that** the **sinner will not profit? But isn’t it taught** in a *baraita* that **Rabbi Yehuda says: A captive** woman **who was taken captive** remains **in her** state of **sanctity** with the presumptive status of a virgin? **Even** if she was in captivity when she was **ten years old, her marriage contract is two hundred** dinars. **And there,** in that case, **what** relevance **is there** for the rationale: To ensure **that** the **sinner will not profit?** That *baraita* refers to a marriage contract and no transgression is involved. The Gemara answers: **There too,** Rabbi Yehuda issues the same ruling for a different reason. She receives the marriage contract of a virgin because if she didn’t, **perhaps men would refrain and not marry her,** due to their suspicion that her captors violated her.


###### Ketubot 36b:11
[Ketubot 36b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:11)

וְסָבַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה בִּקְדוּשְׁתַּהּ קָיְימָה? וְהָתַנְיָא: הַפּוֹדֶה אֶת הַשְּׁבוּיָה — יִשָּׂאֶנָּה. מֵעִיד בָּהּ — לֹא יִשָּׂאֶנָּה. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּין כָּךְ וּבֵין כָּךְ לֹא יִשָּׂאֶנָּה! הָא גּוּפַהּ קַשְׁיָא, אָמְרַתְּ: הַפּוֹדֶה אֶת הַשְּׁבוּיָה — יִשָּׂאֶנָּה, וַהֲדַר תְּנָא: מֵעִיד בָּהּ — לֹא יִשָּׂאֶנָּה. מִשּׁוּם דְּמֵעִיד בָּהּ לֹא יִשָּׂאֶנָּה?!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And** does **Rabbi Yehuda maintain** that a captive woman remains **in her** state of **sanctity? But isn’t it taught** in a *baraita*: **One who redeems a captive may marry her,** even if he is a priest, but if he **testifies** that **she** did not engage in sexual relations while in captivity, **he may not marry her? Rabbi Yehuda says: Both** in **this** case, where he redeemed her, **and** in **that** case, where he testified, **he may not marry her,** lest she was violated and rendered unfit to marry a priest. The Gemara comments: **This** *baraita* **itself is difficult.** On the one hand **you said: One who redeems a captive may marry her, and then it was taught:** If he **testifies** that **she** did not engage in sexual relations while in captivity, **he may not marry her.** Is that to say that **due to** the fact **that he** also **testifies** that **she** was not violated **he may not marry her?**


###### Ketubot 36b:12
[Ketubot 36b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:12)

הָא לָא קַשְׁיָא, הָכִי קָאָמַר: הַפּוֹדֶה אֶת הַשְּׁבוּיָה וּמֵעִיד בָּהּ — יִשָּׂאֶנָּה, מֵעִיד בָּהּ כְּדִי — לֹא יִשָּׂאֶנָּה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: This is **not difficult,** as **this is what** the *baraita* **is saying: One who redeems a captive** woman **and testifies** that **she** was not violated **may marry her.** However, if he **only testifies** that **she** was not violated **he may not marry her.**


###### Ketubot 36b:13
[Ketubot 36b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:13)

מִכׇּל מָקוֹם קַשְׁיָא לְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה! אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא, אֵימָא: רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בֵּין כָּךְ וּבֵין כָּךְ יִשָּׂאֶנָּה. רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אוֹמֵר: לְעוֹלָם כִּדְקָתָנֵי, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה לְדִבְרֵיהֶם דְּרַבָּנַן קָאָמַר לְהוּ: לְדִידִי — בֵּין כָּךְ וּבֵין כָּךְ יִשָּׂאֶנָּה, אֶלָּא לְדִידְכוּ — בֵּין כָּךְ וּבֵין כָּךְ לֹא יִשָּׂאֶנָּה מִבְּעֵי לֵיהּ!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
With regard to the apparent contradiction between the two statements of Rabbi Yehuda, the Gemara says: **In any case,** this *baraita* is **difficult** according **to Rabbi Yehuda,** as contrary to his earlier statement, he states that a captive woman does not retain the presumptive status of a virgin. **Rav Pappa said:** Emend the text and **say** that **Rabbi Yehuda says: Both** in **this** case and in **that** case **he may marry her. Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, says: Actually,** do not emend the *baraita* and learn it **as it was taught.** In the *baraita*, **Rabbi Yehuda spoke to them** according **to the statement of the Rabbis.** According **to my** opinion, that the presumptive status of a redeemed captive woman is that of a virgin, **both** in **this** case **and** in **that** case **he may marry her. However,** according **to your** opinion that there is concern lest she was violated, the *halakha* **should be** that **both** in **this** case **and** in **that** case **he may not marry her.**


###### Ketubot 36b:14
[Ketubot 36b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:14)

וְרַבָּנַן: הַפּוֹדֶה אֶת הַשְּׁבוּיָה וּמֵעִיד בָּהּ יִשָּׂאֶנָּה — לָא שָׁדֵי אִינִישׁ זוּזֵי בִּכְדִי. מֵעִיד בָּהּ כְּדִי לֹא יִשָּׂאֶנָּה — שֶׁמָּא עֵינָיו נָתַן בָּהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And** how do **the Rabbis** explain their ruling? They explain: **One who redeems a captive** woman and **testifies** that **she** was not violated **may marry her,** as **a person does not throw** away **money for nothing.** If he paid the ransom to redeem her, he must be certain that she is a virgin. One who **only testifies** that **she** was not violated **may not marry her, lest he had his eye on her** to marry her and is prepared to lie to facilitate that marriage.


###### Ketubot 36b:15
[Ketubot 36b:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/36b:15)

רָמֵי לֵיהּ רַב פָּפָּא בַּר שְׁמוּאֵל לְרַב יוֹסֵף:

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Pappa bar Shmuel raised a contradiction before Rav Yosef:**