## Ketubot Daf 39b

###### Ketubot 39b:1
[Ketubot 39b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:1)

שֶׁסּוֹפָהּ לְהִצְטַעֵר תַּחַת בַּעֲלָהּ. אָמְרוּ לוֹ: אֵינוֹ דּוֹמֶה נִבְעֶלֶת בְּאוֹנֶס לְנִבְעֶלֶת בְּרָצוֹן. אֶלָּא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: צַעַר שֶׁל פִּיסּוּק הָרַגְלַיִם. וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר: ״וַתְּפַשְּׂקִי אֶת רַגְלַיִךְ לְכׇל עוֹבֵר״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**that she will ultimately suffer** the same pain during intercourse when **under** the authority of **her husband? They said to him: One who has intercourse against** her **will is not comparable to one who has intercourse willingly.** Apparently, the pain associated with rape is a direct result of the forced intercourse and not of some associated cause. **Rather, Rav Naḥman said** that **Rabba bar Avuh said:** It refers to the **pain of spreading** her **legs** during intercourse. **And likewise,** the verse **says: “And you opened your legs to every passerby”** (Ezekiel 16:25).


###### Ketubot 39b:2
[Ketubot 39b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:2)

אִי הָכִי, מְפוּתָּה נָמֵי! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: מָשָׁל דִּמְפוּתָּה לְמָה הַדָּבָר דּוֹמֶה? לְאָדָם שֶׁאָמַר לַחֲבֵירוֹ: קְרַע שִׁירָאִין שֶׁלִּי וְהִפָּטֵר. שֶׁלִּי?! דַּאֲבוּהּ נִינְהוּ? אֶלָּא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: פִּקְּחוֹת שֶׁבָּהֶן אוֹמְרוֹת: מְפוּתָּה אֵין לָהּ צַעַר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **If so, a seduced woman** should **also** be obligated to make that payment as well. **Rav Naḥman said** that **Rabba bar Avuh stated a parable: To what can** this **matter** of a seducer **be compared?** It can be compared **to a person who said to another: Tear my silk and be exempt** from payment. Since she engaged in relations of her own volition, she certainly absolved him of payment for the pain. The Gemara asks: Tear **my** silk? It is not her silk, and therefore she may not waive payment for damage to it; **it is** the silk **of her father,** as the fine and the other payments are paid to him. **Rather, Rav Naḥman said** that **Rabba bar Avuh said** that **the clever** women **among them say** that **a seduced woman has no pain** during intercourse, as she is a willing participant.


###### Ketubot 39b:3
[Ketubot 39b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:3)

וְהָא קָא חָזֵינַן דְּאִית לַהּ? אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: אֲמַרָה לִי אֵם, כְּמַיָּא חַמִּימֵי עַל רֵישֵׁיהּ דְּקַרְחָא. רָבָא אָמַר: אֲמַרָה לִי בַּת רַב חִסְדָּא: כִּי רִיבְדָּא דְכוּסִילְתָּא. רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: אֲמַרָה לִי בַּת אַבָּא סוּרָאָה: כִּי נַהֲמָא אַקּוּשָׁא בְּחִינְכֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **But don’t we see that** even a married woman **has** pain when she engages in sexual relations for the first time? **Abaye said: My** foster **mother told me** that the pain is **like hot water on the head of a bald** man. **Rava said:** My wife, **Rav Ḥisda’s daughter, told me** that it is **like the stab of a bloodletting knife. Rav Pappa said:** My wife, **Abba Sura’s daughter, told me** that it is **like** the feeling of **hard bread on the gums.** When a woman engages in intercourse willingly, the pain is negligible. Therefore, the seducer is not obligated to pay for pain.


###### Ketubot 39b:4
[Ketubot 39b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:4)

הָאוֹנֵס נוֹתֵן מִיָּד הַמְפַתֶּה לִכְשֶׁיּוֹצִיא וְכוּ׳. לִכְשֶׁיּוֹצִיא?! אִשְׁתּוֹ הִיא? אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: אֵימָא לִכְשֶׁלֹּא יִכְנוֹס. תַּנְיָא נָמֵי הָכִי: אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאָמְרוּ הַמְפַתֶּה נוֹתֵן לִכְשֶׁלֹּא יִכְנוֹס, בּוֹשֶׁת וּפְגָם נוֹתֵן מִיָּד. וְאֶחָד הָאוֹנֵס וְאֶחָד הַמְפַתֶּה, בֵּין הִיא וּבֵין אָבִיהָ יְכוֹלִין לְעַכֵּב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The mishna continues: **The rapist gives** payment **immediately, and the seducer when he releases her, etc.** The Gemara asks: **When he releases** her? Is **she his wife?** He did not yet marry her, so how can the mishna use the language of divorce? **Abaye said: Say** that he gives payment **when** he opts **not** to **marry** her. If he marries her he need not pay. **That** opinion **was also taught** in a *baraita*: **Although they said** that **the seducer gives** the fine **when** he opts **not** to **marry** her, the compensation for her **humiliation and degradation he gives immediately.** The *baraita* continues: Although **both the rapist and the seducer** are obligated to marry their victim, **both she and her father are able to prevent** the marriage.


###### Ketubot 39b:5
[Ketubot 39b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:5)

בִּשְׁלָמָא מְפוּתָּה — כְּתִיב: ״אִם מָאֵן יְמָאֵן אָבִיהָ״. אֵין לִי אֶלָּא אָבִיהָ, הִיא עַצְמָהּ מִנַּיִן — תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר: ״יְמָאֵן״, מִכׇּל מָקוֹם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **Granted,** with regard to **a woman who was seduced, it is written: “If her father refuses [*maen yemaen*]** to give her to him” (Exodus 22:16), and the Sages interpreted: **I have only** derived that **her father** can prevent the marriage; **from where do we** derive that **she herself** can do so? **The verse states:** *Maen **yemaen*****,** a double verb indicating that the marriage can be prevented **in any case,** i.e., she too may do so.


###### Ketubot 39b:6
[Ketubot 39b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:6)

אֶלָּא אוֹנֵס? בִּשְׁלָמָא אִיהִי — כְּתִיב: ״וְלוֹ תִהְיֶה״, מִדַּעְתָּהּ. אֶלָּא אָבִיהָ מְנָלַן?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**However,** from where is it derived that they can prevent the marriage in the case of **a rapist? Granted, she** herself can prevent the marriage, as **it is written: “And to him she shall be** as a wife” (Deuteronomy 22:29), and the term “shall be” indicates **with her consent. However, from where do we** derive that **her father** can prevent the marriage?


###### Ketubot 39b:7
[Ketubot 39b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:7)

אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: שֶׁלֹּא יְהֵא חוֹטֵא נִשְׂכָּר. רָבָא אָמַר: קַל וָחוֹמֶר, וּמָה מְפַתֶּה שֶׁלֹּא עָבַר אֶלָּא עַל דַּעַת אָבִיהָ בִּלְבַד, בֵּין הִיא וּבֵין אָבִיהָ יְכוֹלִין לְעַכֵּב — אוֹנֵס שֶׁעָבַר עַל דַּעַת אָבִיהָ וְעַל דַּעַת עַצְמָהּ, לֹא כׇּל שֶׁכֵּן?!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Abaye said:** No verse is necessary as it stands to reason that the father too can prevent the marriage **so that a sinner will not profit.** If her father could not prevent the marriage, the rapist would acquire the right to marry the young woman despite the father’s refusal, a right not accorded to one who seeks to betroth a young woman in a conventional manner. **Rava said** it is derived through **an *a fortiori* inference: Just as** in the case of **a seducer, who contravened only her father’s will,** as she acquiesced to his proposition, nevertheless **both she and her father can prevent** the marriage; in the case of **a rapist, who contravened** both **her father’s will and her own will, all the more so** is it **not** so that both she and her father can prevent the marriage?


###### Ketubot 39b:8
[Ketubot 39b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:8)

רָבָא לָא אָמַר כְּאַבַּיֵּי. כֵּיוָן דְּקָא מְשַׁלֵּם קְנָס, לָאו חוֹטֵא נִשְׂכָּר הוּא. אַבָּיֵי לָא אָמַר כְּרָבָא: מְפַתֶּה דְּאִיהוּ מָצֵי מְעַכֵּב — אָבִיהָ נָמֵי מָצֵי מְעַכֵּב, אוֹנֵס דְּאִיהוּ לָא מָצֵי מְעַכֵּב — אָבִיהָ נָמֵי לָא מָצֵי מְעַכֵּב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara elaborates: **Rava did not say in accordance with** the explanation of **Abaye,** as **since** the rapist **pays the fine he is not a sinner** who **profits,** as he too must pay the dowry of a virgin even if he marries her. Likewise, **Abaye did not say in accordance with** the explanation of **Rava** because in the case of **a seducer, where** the seducer himself **can prevent** the marriage, **her father can also prevent** the marriage. In the case of **a rapist, where** the rapist himself **cannot prevent** the marriage, **her father also cannot prevent** the marriage.


###### Ketubot 39b:9
[Ketubot 39b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:9)

תַּנְיָא אִידַּךְ: אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאָמְרוּ אוֹנֵס נוֹתֵן מִיָּד, כְּשֶׁיּוֹצִיא הוּא אֵין לָהּ עָלָיו כְּלוּם. כְּשֶׁיּוֹצִיא?! מִי מָצֵי מַפֵּיק לַהּ?! אֵימָא: כְּשֶׁתֵּצֵא הִיא, אֵין לָהּ עָלָיו כְּלוּם. מֵת — יָצָא כֶּסֶף קְנָסָהּ בִּכְתוּבָּתָהּ. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּרַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: יֵשׁ לָהּ כְּתוּבָּה מָנֶה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**It was taught** in **another** *baraita*: **Although** the Sages **said** that **the rapist gives** payment **immediately, when he releases** her **she has no** claim **upon him.** The Gemara asks: **When he releases** her? **Can he release her?** It is prohibited by Torah law for him to do so. Rather, emend the *baraita* and **say: When she leaves,** if she seeks to divorce him and demands a bill of divorce, **she has no** monetary claim **upon him.** Similarly, if **he died,** the **money of her fine offsets her marriage contract.** The fine, which was the equivalent of the dowry of virgins, replaces her marriage contract. **Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Yehuda, says:** Even a rape victim **has a marriage contract** of **one hundred dinars,** like the marriage contract of all non-virgin wives.


###### Ketubot 39b:10
[Ketubot 39b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:10)

בְּמַאי קָמִיפַּלְגִי. רַבָּנַן סָבְרִי: טַעְמָא מַאי תַּקִּינוּ רַבָּנַן כְּתוּבָּה — כְּדֵי שֶׁלֹּא תְּהֵא קַלָּה בְּעֵינָיו לְהוֹצִיאָהּ, וְהָא לָא מָצֵי מַפֵּיק לַהּ. וְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּרַבִּי יְהוּדָה סָבַר: הָא נָמֵי מְצַעַר לַהּ עַד דְּאָמְרָה הִיא ״לָא בָּעֵינָא לָךְ״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **With regard to what** principle **do they disagree?** The Gemara explains: **The Rabbis maintain: What is the reason** that **the Sages instituted a marriage contract** for the woman? They instituted it **so that she will not be inconsequential in his eyes,** enabling him **to** easily **divorce her.** Because divorcing her will cost money, he will not do so rashly. **And this** woman whom he raped, **he cannot release her** by Torah law, obviating the need for a marriage contract. **And Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Yehuda, maintains:** With regard to **this** woman **too,** although he cannot divorce her, he can **torment her until she says: I do not want you.** When she initiates the divorce, he can divorce her. Therefore, the Sages instituted that she receives the marriage contract of a non-virgin to prevent him from doing so.


###### Ketubot 39b:11
[Ketubot 39b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/39b:11)

אוֹנֵס שׁוֹתֶה בַּעֲצִיצוֹ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא מִפַּרְזִקְיָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי: מִכְּדֵי מִיגְמָר גָּמְרִי מֵהֲדָדֵי,

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The mishna continues: **A rapist drinks from his vessel,** and the seducer is not obligated to marry the woman he seduced. **Rava from Parzakya said to Rav Ashi: Since** the *halakhot* of a rapist and a seducer **are derived from each other** with regard to the sum of the fine,