## Ketubot Daf 45b

###### Ketubot 45b:1
[Ketubot 45b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:1)

אֵימוֹר דְּשָׁמְעִינַן לֵיהּ לְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן דְּאָזֵיל אַף בָּתַר יְדִיעָה, דְּאָזֵיל בָּתַר יְדִיעָה וְלָא אָזֵיל בָּתַר חֶטְאָה מִי שָׁמְעַתְּ לֵיהּ? אִם כֵּן — לַיְיתֵי קׇרְבָּן כִּי דְּהַשְׁתָּא: מָשׁוּחַ פַּר, וְנָשִׂיא שָׂעִיר!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara questions this comparison: **Say that we heard that Rabbi Shimon follows even** the **awareness,** i.e., Rabbi Shimon takes into consideration the time when the sin became known to the High Priest or king, and maintains that he cannot bring the offering of a commoner. However, **did you hear him** say **that he follows** the time of the **awareness and does not follow** the time of the **sin? If so, let him bring** the **offering that** befits his **current** status: One **anointed** to be the High Priest brings **a bullock, and a prince,** i.e., a king, offers **a goat.** Consequently, there is no proof that, according to Rabbi Shimon, if the sin of a betrothed young woman became known after she reached majority, she is sentenced to strangulation like a grown woman.


###### Ketubot 45b:2
[Ketubot 45b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:2)

הָאָמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לְתַנָּא: תְּנִי, תִּידּוֹן בִּסְקִילָה. וְאַמַּאי? ״נַעֲרָה הַמְאוֹרָסָה״ אָמַר רַחֲמָנָא וְהָא בּוֹגֶרֶת הִיא! אָמַר רַבִּי אִילְעָא, אָמַר קְרָא: ״הַנַּעֲרָה״ — הַנַּעֲרָה שֶׁהָיְתָה כְּבָר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara responds: Nevertheless, this issue is subject to a dispute. **Didn’t Rabbi Yoḥanan say to** the ***tanna*,** i.e., the Sage who would recite statements of *tanna’im* before him and who recited Sheila’s ruling with regard to a betrothed young woman: **Teach** that **she is sentenced to stoning** rather than strangulation? The Gemara questions Rabbi Yoḥanan’s statement: **But why? The Merciful One says: A betrothed young woman, but this one is a grown woman. Rabbi Ile’a said: The verse states: The young woman, in reference to the young woman that she already was** at the time of her sin, despite the fact that she now has a different status.


###### Ketubot 45b:3
[Ketubot 45b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:3)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי חֲנַנְיָא לְרַבִּי אִילְעָא: אִי הָכִי מִילְקָא נָמֵי לִילְקֵי, וּמֵאָה סֶלַע נָמֵי לִישַׁלֵּם! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: רַחֲמָנָא נַיצְּלַן מֵהַאי דַּעְתָּא: אַדְּרַבָּה, רַחֲמָנָא נַיצְּלַן מִדַּעְתָּא דִּידָךְ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Ḥanina said to Rabbi Ile’a: If so,** if her status is determined according to the time of her transgression, **let** the husband who defames her **also be flogged, and let him also pay** the **one hundred *sela*** if his claim turns out to have been unfounded. Rabbi Ile’a **said to him: May the Merciful One save us from** following **this opinion,** as your argument is illogical. Rabbi Ḥanina replied: **On the contrary, may the Merciful One save us from your opinion,** as yours is the baseless opinion.


###### Ketubot 45b:4
[Ketubot 45b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:4)

וְטַעְמָא מַאי? אָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק בַּר אָבִין, וְאִיתֵּימָא רַבִּי יִצְחָק בַּר אַבָּא: זוֹ מַעֲשֶׂיהָ גָּרְמוּ לָהּ, וְזֶה עֲקִימַת שְׂפָתָיו גָּרְמוּ לוֹ. זוֹ מַעֲשֶׂיהָ גָּרְמוּ לָהּ, (כְּשֶׁהִיא) [כִּי] זַנַּאי — [כְּשֶׁהִיא] נַעֲרָה זַנַּאי. וְזֶה עֲקִימַת שְׂפָתָיו גָּרְמוּ לוֹ, אֵימַת קָא מִיחַיַּיב? הָהִיא שַׁעְתָּא, וְהָהִיא שַׁעְתָּא בּוֹגֶרֶת הֲוַאי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And what is the reason** that she is considered a young woman with regard to stoning but a grown woman when it comes to the fine? **Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Avin said, and some say** this answer was given by **Rabbi Yitzḥak bar Abba:** With regard to **this one,** i.e., the woman, who sinned, **her act** of adultery **caused her** punishment, **whereas that one,** i.e., the husband who wrongfully defamed his wife, **the twisting of his lips caused his** punishment, i.e., he sinned by speaking. He elaborates: **This one, her action caused her** punishment. **When she committed adultery,** she was **a young woman** who **committed adultery,** and she is sentenced accordingly. **And that one, the twisting of his lips caused his** punishment. **When** does he **become liable?** At **that time** when he defamed her, **and** at **that time** his wife **was a grown woman.**


###### Ketubot 45b:5
[Ketubot 45b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:5)

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: נַעֲרָה הַמְאוֹרָסָה שֶׁזִּינְּתָה — סוֹקְלִין אוֹתָהּ עַל פֶּתַח בֵּית אָבִיהָ. אֵין לָהּ פֶּתַח בֵּית הָאָב, סוֹקְלִין אוֹתָהּ עַל פֶּתַח שַׁעַר הָעִיר הַהִיא. וּבְעִיר שֶׁרוּבָּהּ גּוֹיִם — סוֹקְלִין אוֹתָהּ עַל פֶּתַח בֵּית דִּין. כַּיּוֹצֵא בַּדָּבָר אַתָּה אוֹמֵר: הָעוֹבֵד עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה — סוֹקְלִין אוֹתוֹ עַל שַׁעַר שֶׁעָבַד בּוֹ, וּבְעִיר שֶׁרוּבָּהּ גּוֹיִם — סוֹקְלִין אוֹתוֹ עַל פֶּתַח בֵּית דִּין.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ **The Sages taught** in a *baraita*: In the case of **a betrothed young woman who committed adultery, one stones her at the entrance to her father’s house.** If **she does not have an entrance** to her **father’s house, one stones her at the entrance** to the **gate of that city. And in a city that is mostly** populated by **gentiles,** where she cannot be stoned at the city entrance, **one stones her at the entrance** to **the court. In a similar manner, you say:** With regard to **one who engaged in idol worship, one stones him at the entrance** to **the gate where he worshipped, and in a city that is mostly** inhabited by **gentiles one stones him at the entrance** to **the court.**


###### Ketubot 45b:6
[Ketubot 45b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:6)

מְנָא הָנֵי מִילֵּי? דְּתָנוּ רַבָּנַן: ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״, זֶה שַׁעַר שֶׁעָבַד בּוֹ. אַתָּה אוֹמֵר שַׁעַר שֶׁעָבַד בּוֹ, אוֹ אֵינוֹ אֶלָּא שַׁעַר שֶׁנִּידּוֹן בּוֹ?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **From where are these matters** derived, that one stones an idol worshipper in the place where he worshipped? **As the Sages taught:** It states with regard to one who worshipped an idol: “Then you shall bring forth that man or that women who have done this evil thing, to your gates…and you shall stone them with stones that they die” (Deuteronomy 17:5). **“Your gates,” this is the gate where he worshipped** idolatry. The offender is taken there to be stoned. Do **you say** it is **the gate where he worshipped, or** perhaps **it is only the gate where he was sentenced,** i.e., the gate of the court?


###### Ketubot 45b:7
[Ketubot 45b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:7)

נֶאֱמַר ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״ לְמַטָּה, וְנֶאֱמַר ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״ לְמַעְלָה. מָה ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״ הָאָמוּר לְמַעְלָה — שַׁעַר שֶׁעָבַד בּוֹ, אַף ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״ הָאָמוּר לְמַטָּה — שַׁעַר שֶׁעָבַד בּוֹ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: **It is stated “your gates” below,** in that verse, **and is stated “your gates” above,** in this verse: “If there is found in the midst of you, within any of your gates…a man or woman who does that which is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing His covenant” (Deuteronomy 17:2). **Just as “your gates” stated above** is referring to the **gate where he worshipped, so too** the phrase **“your gates” stated below,** with regard to execution, means the **gate where he worshipped** idols.


###### Ketubot 45b:8
[Ketubot 45b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:8)

דָּבָר אַחֵר: ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״, וְלֹא שַׁעֲרֵי גוֹיִם. הַאי ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״, הָא אַפֵּיקְתֵּיהּ? אִם כֵּן, לֵימָא קְרָא ״שַׁעַר״, מַאי ״שְׁעָרֶיךָ״? שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ תַּרְתֵּי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Alternatively,** the idol worshipper is executed at **“your gates,” and not** at **the gates of gentiles.** The Gemara asks: **This** term, **“your gates,” you have** already **used it** to indicate that he is stoned at the gate of the city where he worshipped idols. How, then, can you derive another *halakha* from this expression? The Gemara answers: **If so,** if it teaches only one *halakha*, **let the verse say** only the word **gate.** For **what** reason does it state **“your gates”?** This indicates that the verse is referring to the gates of cities inhabited by Jews, and therefore one can **conclude two** conclusions **from it.**


###### Ketubot 45b:9
[Ketubot 45b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:9)

אַשְׁכְּחַן עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה, נַעֲרָה הַמְאוֹרָסָה מְנָא לַן?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **We found** a source that indicates that in a case of **idolatrous worship,** the perpetrator is stoned at the gate of the city where he committed his sin. **From where do we** derive that **a betrothed young woman** who is not stoned at the entrance to her father’s house is stoned at the gate of the city?


###### Ketubot 45b:10
[Ketubot 45b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:10)

אָמַר רַבִּי אֲבָהוּ: גָּמַר ״פֶּתַח״ מִ״פֶּתַח״, וּ״פֶתַח״ מִ״שַּׁעַר״, וְ״שַׁעַר״ מִ״שְּׁעָרֶיךָ״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Abbahu said:** One **derives** this by verbal analogy, as follows: The meaning of the term **“entrance”** (Deuteronomy 22:21), stated with regard to a betrothed woman who committed adultery, is derived **from** the term **“entrance”** that appears with regard to the Tabernacle, in the verse “The entrance of the gate of the courtyard” (Numbers 4:26); **and** the meaning of this usage of the term **entrance** is derived **from** the term **“gate,”** which appears in the same phrase; **and** the meaning of this usage of the term **“gate”** is derived **from** the term **“your gates”** stated with regard to idolatry. This teaches that a young woman who was betrothed and committed adultery is executed at the gate of the city, similar to one who engaged in idol worship.


###### Ketubot 45b:11
[Ketubot 45b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:11)

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: הַמּוֹצִיא שֵׁם רַע לוֹקֶה וְנוֹתֵן מֵאָה סֶלַע. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: לִלְקוֹת — לוֹקֶה מִכׇּל מָקוֹם, מֵאָה סֶלַע, בָּעַל — נוֹתֵן, לֹא בָּעַל — אֵינוֹ נוֹתֵן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ **The Sages taught** in a *baraita*: **One who defames** his wife **is flogged and gives one hundred *sela*. Rabbi Yehuda says:** As **for flogging, he is flogged in any case.** However, with regard to the **one hundred *sela*,** if he defamed her after **he had intercourse** with her, **he gives** the money. If he did **not** yet **have intercourse** with her, **he does not give** her this sum.


###### Ketubot 45b:12
[Ketubot 45b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:12)

קָא מִיפַּלְגִי בִּפְלוּגְתָּא דְּרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר בֶּן יַעֲקֹב וְרַבָּנַן. וְהָכִי קָאָמַר: הַמּוֹצִיא שֵׁם רַע — לוֹקֶה וְנוֹתֵן מֵאָה סֶלַע, בֵּין בָּעַל בֵּין שֶׁלֹּא בָּעַל, כְּרַבָּנַן. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: לִלְקוֹת — לוֹקֶה מִכׇּל מָקוֹם, מֵאָה סֶלַע, בָּעַל — נוֹתֵן, לֹא בָּעַל — אֵינוֹ נוֹתֵן, כְּרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר בֶּן יַעֲקֹב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara comments: These *tanna’im* **disagree with regard to the dispute between Rabbi Eliezer ben Ya’akov and the Rabbis, and this is what** the first *tanna* **is saying: The defamer is flogged and gives one hundred *sela*, whether he had intercourse** with his wife or **whether he did not have intercourse** with her, **in accordance with** the opinion of **the Rabbis. Rabbi Yehuda says:** As **for flogging, he is flogged in any case,** but with regard to the **one hundred *sela*,** if **he had intercourse he gives** the money, whereas if **he** did **not have intercourse he does not give** it to her. This is **in accordance with** the opinion of **Rabbi Eliezer ben Ya’akov,** that the *halakha* of a defamer applies only to a husband who had relations with his wife.


###### Ketubot 45b:13
[Ketubot 45b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:13)

אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי: כּוּלַּהּ כְּרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר בֶּן יַעֲקֹב. וְהָכִי קָאָמַר: הַמּוֹצִיא שֵׁם רַע — לוֹקֶה וְנוֹתֵן מֵאָה סֶלַע, וְהוּא שֶׁבָּעַל. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: לִלְקוֹת — לוֹקֶה מִכׇּל מָקוֹם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**There are** those **who say** that this **entire** *baraita* is **in accordance with** the opinion of **Rabbi Eliezer ben Ya’akov, and this is what** the *baraita* **is saying: The defamer is flogged and gives one hundred *sela*, but this** applies only if **he** previously **had intercourse** with his wife. **Rabbi Yehuda says:** As **for flogging, he is flogged in any case,** as only the fine is dependent on the couple having previously had intercourse.


###### Ketubot 45b:14
[Ketubot 45b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/45b:14)

וְסָבַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה לִלְקוֹת לוֹקֶה מִכׇּל מָקוֹם? וְהָתַנְיָא, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: בָּעַל — לוֹקֶה, לֹא בָּעַל — אֵינוֹ לוֹקֶה! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: לוֹקֶה מַכַּת מַרְדּוּת מִדְּרַבָּנַן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And does Rabbi Yehuda hold** that with regard **to flogging, he is flogged in any case? But isn’t it taught** in a *baraita* that **Rabbi Yehuda says:** If **he had intercourse** with his wife before he defamed her, **he is flogged;** but if **he did not have intercourse** with his wife before he defamed her, **he is not flogged?** In answer to this question, **Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said:** When Rabbi Yehuda said that he **is flogged** even if he had not yet had intercourse with his wife, he was referring to **lashes for rebelliousness [*mardut*],** which apply **by rabbinic** law. Since he lied, defamed his wife, and endangered her life by accusing her of a sin that carries the death penalty, the court punishes him, but this punishment does not apply by Torah law.