## Ketubot Daf 69b

###### Ketubot 69b:1
[Ketubot 69b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:1)

גּוּפָא דְעוֹבָדָא הֵיכִי הֲוָה? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָכִי וְהָכִי הֲוָה מַעֲשֶׂה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: גַּבְרָא דְּלָא יָדַע מַאי נִיהוּ ״מַרְזֵיחָא״, שָׁלַח לֵיהּ לְרַב הוּנָא ״הוּנָא חַבְרִין״?! מַאי ״מַרְזֵיחָא״ — אֵבֶל, דִּכְתִיב: ״כֹּה אָמַר ה׳ אַל תָּבֹא בֵּית מַרְזֵחַ וְגוֹ׳״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**how the incident itself happened.** What are the particulars of your exchange that brought about this end result? **He said to him: Such and such was** the **incident,** and Rav Anan related the details to Mar Ukva. **He said to him: A man who does not know what a *marzeiḥa* is sends** a letter **to Rav Huna** addressing him as **Huna, our friend?** It is not your place to take such liberties in your correspondence with him, and Rav Huna was justifiably offended. The Gemara explains: **What is a *marzeiḥa*? A mourner, as it is written: “For so says the Lord: Enter not into the house of mourning [*marze’aḥ***], neither go to lament, neither bemoan them” (Jeremiah 16:5).


###### Ketubot 69b:2
[Ketubot 69b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:2)

אָמַר רַבִּי אֲבָהוּ: מִנַּיִן לָאָבֵל שֶׁמֵּיסֵב בָּרֹאשׁ — שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״אֶבְחַר דַּרְכָּם וְאֵשֵׁב רֹאשׁ וְאֶשְׁכּוֹן כְּמֶלֶךְ בַּגְּדוּד כַּאֲשֶׁר אֲבֵלִים יְנַחֵם״. יְנַחֵם אֲחֵרִים מַשְׁמַע! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: ״יִנָּחֵם״ כְּתִיב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Abbahu said** concerning the same topic: **From where** is it derived **that a mourner sits at the head? As it is stated: “I chose out their way, and sat as chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that would comfort [*yenaḥem*] the mourners”** (Job 29:25). The Gemara challenges the proof: The word ***yenaḥem* implies** one comforting **others** and not the mourner being comforted. **Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said:** Since it is written without vowels, the word can be read **as** if **it were written “would be comforted [*yinnaḥem*],”** which describes the mourner who is being comforted.


###### Ketubot 69b:3
[Ketubot 69b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:3)

מָר זוּטְרָא אָמַר, מֵהָכָא: ״וְסָר מִרְזַח סְרוּחִים״. מַר וָזַח — נַעֲשֶׂה שַׂר לִסְרוּחִים.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Mar Zutra said:** That the mourner sits at the head may be derived **from here: “And the revelry [*mirzaḥ*] of those who stretched themselves shall pass away [*sar*]”** (Amos 6:7). The word *mirzaḥ* may alternatively be read as two distinct words: Bitter [*mar*] and flustered [*zaḥ*], and the word *sar* has a homonym that means ruler. Read this way, the verse indicates: One who is **bitter and flustered,** i.e., the mourner, **is made** the **ruler of those who sit,** i.e., the visitors who come to comfort him and sit with him. Therefore, he sits at the head.


###### Ketubot 69b:4
[Ketubot 69b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:4)

אָמַר רָבָא, הִלְכְתָא: מִמְּקַרְקְעֵי וְלָא מִמִּטַּלְטְלִי, בֵּין לִמְזוֹנֵי, בֵּין לִכְתוּבָּה, בֵּין לְפַרְנָסָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara reports the conclusion of the earlier discussion: Rava said: **The *halakha*** is that one may collect from the inheritors **from real estate and not from movable property, whether for sustenance, whether for** the **marriage contract,** or **whether for support,** referring to the dowry.


###### Ketubot 69b:5
[Ketubot 69b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:5)

**מַתְנִי׳** הַמַּשְׁלִישׁ מָעוֹת לְבִתּוֹ, וְהִיא אוֹמֶרֶת: נֶאֱמָן בַּעְלִי עָלַי — יַעֲשֶׂה הַשָּׁלִישׁ מַה שֶּׁהוּשְׁלַשׁ בְּיָדוֹ, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר: וְכִי אֵינָהּ אֶלָּא שָׂדֶה, וְהִיא רוֹצָה לְמוֹכְרָהּ, הֲרֵי הִיא מְכוּרָה מֵעַכְשָׁיו. בַּמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים: בִּגְדוֹלָה. אֲבָל בִּקְטַנָּה — אֵין מַעֲשֵׂה קְטַנָּה כְּלוּם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**MISHNA:** With regard to **one who transfers money** by means of a third party **for his daughter** to purchase a field after she marries, is the daughter allowed to assert control over the money? **If she says** after she marries: **My husband is trustworthy for me,** so give him the money to buy the property for me, her wishes are not honored. **The third party should execute** the agency **that was entrusted in his power;** this is **the statement of Rabbi Meir. Rabbi Yosei says:** The daughter has authority: **And were it only a field and she wanted to sell it, it** could be **sold immediately.** Just as she would have authority to control the field, she may control the money assigned for her. The mishna qualifies: **In what** case **is this statement said? With** respect to **an adult woman. But with** respect to **a minor girl,** any **action of a minor girl is nothing** from a legal standpoint; a minor would have no authority in this matter.


###### Ketubot 69b:6
[Ketubot 69b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:6)

**גְּמָ׳** תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: הַמַּשְׁלִישׁ מָעוֹת לַחֲתָנוֹ לִיקַּח מֵהֶן שָׂדֶה לְבִתּוֹ, וְהִיא אוֹמֶרֶת: יִנָּתְנוּ לְבַעְלִי, מִן הַנִּשּׂוּאִין — הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדָהּ, מִן הָאֵירוּסִין — יַעֲשֶׂה הַשָּׁלִישׁ מַה שֶּׁהוּשְׁלַשׁ בְּיָדוֹ, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר: הַגְּדוֹלָה, בֵּין מִן הַנִּשּׂוּאִין וּבֵין מִן הָאֵירוּסִין — הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדָהּ. קְטַנָּה, בֵּין מִן הַנִּשּׂוּאִין בֵּין מִן הָאֵירוּסִין — יַעֲשֶׂה הַשָּׁלִישׁ מַה שֶּׁהוּשְׁלַשׁ בְּיָדוֹ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**GEMARA:** **The Sages taught** in the *Tosefta* (6:9): In the case of **one who transfers money** by means of a third party **for his son-in-law, in order to purchase with it a field for his daughter, and she says: Let** the money **be given** directly **to my husband** to invest as he sees fit, whether or not the court heeds her depends upon the circumstances. If she makes her appeal **from** the beginning of **the marriage** and onward, **she has** the **authority** to dictate the terms. If she makes her appeal **from** the time of **the betrothal** until the marriage, **the third party should execute** the agency **that was entrusted in his power;** this is **the statement of Rabbi Meir. Rabbi Yosei says:** With respect to **the adult woman, whether** the statement is **from the marriage or from the betrothal, she has authority.** In the case of **a minor girl, whether from** the time of **the marriage or from the betrothal, the third party should execute** the agency **that was entrusted in his power.**


###### Ketubot 69b:7
[Ketubot 69b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:7)

מַאי בֵּינַיְיהוּ? אִילֵימָא קְטַנָּה מִן הַנִּשּׂוּאִין אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ, דְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר סָבַר הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדָהּ, וַאֲתָא רַבִּי יוֹסֵי לְמֵימַר אֲפִילּוּ מִן הַנִּשּׂוּאִין נָמֵי: גְּדוֹלָה אִין, קְטַנָּה לָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara clarifies: In the dispute between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yosei, **what is** the practical difference **between them? If we say: The practical difference between them** pertains to the authority of **a minor girl from** the time of the **marriage** and onward, **as Rabbi Meir holds she has authority, and Rabbi Yosei comes to say that also, even from** the time of **the marriage, yes, an adult woman** may dictate terms, but **a minor girl** may **not,** this answer is untenable.


###### Ketubot 69b:8
[Ketubot 69b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:8)

אֵימָא סֵיפָא: אֲבָל בִּקְטַנָּה — אֵין מַעֲשֵׂה קְטַנָּה כְּלוּם. הָא מַאן קָתָנֵי לַהּ? אִילֵּימָא רַבִּי יוֹסֵי, הָא מֵרֵישָׁא שָׁמְעַתְּ מִינַּהּ, דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי: וְכִי אֵינָהּ אֶלָּא שָׂדֶה וְהִיא רוֹצָה לְמוֹכְרָהּ, הֲרֵי הִיא מְכוּרָה מֵעַכְשָׁיו. גְּדוֹלָה דְּבַת זְבִינֵי — אִין, קְטַנָּה דְּלָאו בַּת זְבִינֵי הִיא — לָא!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara explains: **Say the latter clause** of the mishna: **But with** respect to **a minor girl,** any **action of a minor girl is nothing. But who teaches this? If we say it is Rabbi Yosei, but you** already **learn** this principle **from the first clause, as Rabbi Yosei said: And were it only a field and she wanted to sell it, it** could be **sold immediately.** This is true of adults: In the case of **an adult woman, who is capable of selling, yes,** her sale is valid. However, in the case **a minor girl, who is not capable of selling, no,** her sale is invalid.


###### Ketubot 69b:9
[Ketubot 69b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:9)

אֶלָּא רַבִּי מֵאִיר הִיא, וְחַסּוֹרֵי מִיחַסְּרָא וְהָכִי קָתָנֵי: יַעֲשֶׂה הַשָּׁלִישׁ מַה שֶּׁהוּשְׁלַשׁ בְּיָדוֹ. בַּמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים — מִן הָאֵירוּסִין, אֲבָל מִן הַנִּשּׂוּאִין — הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדָהּ. בַּמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים — בִּגְדוֹלָה, אֲבָל בִּקְטַנָּה — אֵין מַעֲשֵׂה קְטַנָּה כְּלוּם. אֶלָּא גְּדוֹלָה מִן הָאֵירוּסִין אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** the latter clause **is** the opinion of **Rabbi Meir. And** the mishna **is incomplete and this** is what **it is teaching: The third party should execute** the agency **that was entrusted in his power. In what** case **is this statement said? From the betrothal. However, from the marriage she has the authority** to dictate terms. **In what** case **is this statement said? For an adult woman. However, for a minor girl,** any **action of a minor girl is nothing.** Rabbi Meir agrees that a minor does not have the authority to transfer the money to her husband. What, then, is the practical difference between them? **Rather,** the **practical difference between them is** with regard to **an adult woman from** the time of **betrothal** until the marriage. Rabbi Meir holds that before marriage, she does not have the authority, and Rabbi Yosei holds that she does.


###### Ketubot 69b:10
[Ketubot 69b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:10)

אִיתְּמַר, רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: הֲלָכָה כְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי, רָבָא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן: הֲלָכָה כְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**It was stated** that the matter was debated by *amora’im*: **Rav Yehuda** said that **Shmuel said: The *halakha*** is **in accordance with** the opinion of **Rabbi Yosei. Rava** said that **Rav Naḥman said: The *halakha* is in accordance with** the opinion of **Rabbi Meir.**


###### Ketubot 69b:11
[Ketubot 69b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:11)

אִילְפָא תְּלָא נַפְשֵׁיהּ בְּאִיסְקַרְיָא דְּמָכוּתָא, אֲמַר: אִיכָּא דְּאָתֵי דְּאָמַר לִי מִילְּתָא דְּבֵי רַבִּי חִיָּיא וְרַבִּי אוֹשַׁעְיָא וְלָא פָּשֵׁיטְנָא לֵיהּ מִמַּתְנִיתִין, נָפֵילְנָא מֵאִסְקַרְיָא וְטָבַעְנָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ Once, it was decided to appoint Rabbi Yoḥanan to be head of the yeshiva over another candidate, the Sage Ilfa, because the latter was not in the vicinity. Suspecting that some would interpret this appointment as a sign that he was less qualified than Rabbi Yoḥanan, **Ilfa suspended himself from the mast [*iskarya*] of a ship [*makhuta*]. He said:** If **there is** someone **who comes, who tells me a matter** taught in a *baraita* **of the school of Rabbi Ḥiyya and Rabbi Oshaya, and I do not resolve it** and demonstrate that the same teaching can be derived **from a mishna, I will fall from the mast and drown.**


###### Ketubot 69b:12
[Ketubot 69b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:12)

אֲתָא הָהוּא סָבָא תְּנָא לֵיהּ: הָאוֹמֵר ״תְּנוּ שֶׁקֶל לְבָנַי בְּשַׁבָּת״, וּרְאוּיִן לִיתֵּן לָהֶם סֶלַע — נוֹתְנִין לָהֶם סֶלַע. וְאִם אָמַר ״אַל תִּתְּנוּ לָהֶם אֶלָּא שֶׁקֶל״ — אֵין נוֹתְנִין לָהֶם אֶלָּא שֶׁקֶל. וְאִם אָמַר ״אִם מֵתוּ יִירְשׁוּ אֲחֵרִים תַּחְתֵּיהֶם״, בֵּין שֶׁאָמַר ״תְּנוּ״, בֵּין שֶׁאָמַר ״אַל תִּתְּנוּ״ — אֵין נוֹתְנִים לָהֶם אֶלָּא שֶׁקֶל.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**A certain older man came** and **taught** before **him** (*Tosefta* 6:10): With regard to **one who says** upon his deathbed: **Give a shekel to my sons for** each **week,** the court assesses the sons’ needs. **And** if it is **appropriate** that the court **gives them a *sela*,** which is worth two shekels, the court **gives them a *sela*.** Had the father known they would need the additional money, he would not have begrudged them. **But if he said: Give them only a shekel,** the court **gives them only a shekel.** Because their father spoke explicitly, there is no room to question his intentions. If they need more, they should take charitable aid. **And if he said: If they die** without inheritors, **others should inherit in their stead,** then **whether he said: Give** a shekel **or whether he said: Don’t give** more than a shekel, the court **gives them only a shekel,** since it is clear that he wants the inheritance to be doled out in such a way that it will remain intact for whoever will receive it. The older man asked Ilfa where this *halakha* is indicated in the Mishna.


###### Ketubot 69b:13
[Ketubot 69b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/69b:13)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָא מַנִּי?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Ilfa **said to him:** In accordance with **whose** opinion **is this** *baraita*?