## Ketubot Daf 8b

###### Ketubot 8b:1
[Ketubot 8b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:1)

כִּי תַּנְיָא הָהִיא — בְּבִרְכַּת הַמָּזוֹן, כִּי קָאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן — בְּשׁוּרָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: **When that** *baraita* **is taught,** it is **with regard to** combining with others to form a quorum of three to recite **Grace after Meals,** as a mourner is obligated to recite Grace after Meals. However, **when Rabbi Yoḥanan says** that mourners are not included in the tally, it is **with regard to** the quorum of ten men required to form **a line** to comfort the mourners following the burial.


###### Ketubot 8b:2
[Ketubot 8b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:2)

וְאֶלָּא הָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: מְבָרְכִים בִּרְכַּת חֲתָנִים בַּעֲשָׂרָה, וַחֲתָנִים מִן הַמִּנְיָן. וּבִרְכַּת אֲבֵלִים בַּעֲשָׂרָה, וְאֵין אֲבֵלִים מִן הַמִּנְיָן. בְּרָכָה בְּשׁוּרָה מִי אִיכָּא? אֶלָּא כִּי קָאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן בִּרְחָבָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And** the Gemara raises an objection: **However, that which Rabbi Yitzḥak said** that **Rabbi Yoḥanan said: One recites the blessing of the grooms in** a quorum of **ten, and the grooms are included in the tally, and one recites the blessing of the mourners in** a quorum of **ten, and the mourners are not included in the tally. Is there a blessing** recited **in the line** formed to comfort the mourners? Clearly, this statement of Rabbi Yoḥanan cannot be explained as referring to the line. **Rather, when Rabbi Yoḥanan said** that mourners are not included in the tally, it was **with regard to** the blessing recited **in the square** adjacent to the cemetery, where the meal of comfort takes place and various blessings are recited to comfort the mourners. Mourners are not included in the requisite quorum of ten.


###### Ketubot 8b:3
[Ketubot 8b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:3)

וְאֶלָּא הָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: מְבָרְכִין בִּרְכַּת חֲתָנִים בַּעֲשָׂרָה כׇּל שִׁבְעָה, וַחֲתָנִים מִן הַמִּנְיָן. וּבִרְכַּת אֲבֵלִים בַּעֲשָׂרָה כׇּל שִׁבְעָה, וְאֵין אֲבֵלִים מִן הַמִּנְיָן. בִּרְכַּת רְחָבָה כׇּל שִׁבְעָה מִי אִיכָּא? מַשְׁכַּחַתְּ לַהּ בְּפָנִים חֲדָשׁוֹת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **However,** with regard to **that which Rabbi Yitzḥak said** that **Rabbi Yoḥanan said: One recites the blessing of the grooms in** a quorum of **ten all seven** days of celebration, **and the grooms are included in the tally; and one recites the blessing of the mourners all seven** days of mourning **in** a quorum of **ten, and the mourners are not included in the tally, is there a blessing** recited **in the square all seven** days? The meal of comfort and the associated blessings take place directly after the burial, not throughout the seven days of mourning. The Gemara answers: **You find** blessings recited throughout the seven-day mourning period **in** a case where **new faces** who did not attend the burial are present. In that case, eulogies and words of comfort are repeated, and the blessing of the mourners is recited again.


###### Ketubot 8b:4
[Ketubot 8b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:4)

כִּי הָא דְּרַב חִיָּיא בַּר אַבָּא מַקְרֵי בְּנֵיהּ דְּרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ הֲוָה, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ מַתְנִי בְּרֵיהּ דְּרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ הֲוָה. שְׁכֵיב לֵיהּ יָנוֹקָא. יוֹמָא קַמָּא לָא אֲזַל לְגַבֵּיהּ. לִמְחַר דַּבְרֵיהּ לִיהוּדָה בַּר נַחְמָנִי מְתוּרְגְּמָנֵיהּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: קוּם אֵימָא מִלְּתָא כׇּל קֳבֵיל יָנוֹקָא. פְּתַח וַאֲמַר: ״וַיַּרְא ה׳ וַיִּנְאָץ מִכַּעַס בָּנָיו וּבְנוֹתָיו״, דּוֹר שֶׁאָבוֹת מְנָאֲצִים לְהַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא — כּוֹעֵס עַל בְּנֵיהֶם וְעַל בְּנוֹתֵיהֶם, וּמֵתִים כְּשֶׁהֵם קְטַנִּים.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ This is **similar** to **that** incident **involving Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba, who was the Bible teacher of the sons of Reish Lakish, and some say** that he was **the Mishna teacher of the son of Reish Lakish. His child died. On the first day,** Reish Lakish **did not go to** comfort **him. The next day, he took Yehuda bar Naḥmani, his disseminator,** with him to comfort Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba. Reish Lakish **said to** his disseminator: **Stand and say a matter** of comfort **with regard to** the death of **the child. He began and said: “And the Lord saw it and He abhorred them, due to the provocation of His sons and His daughters”** (Deuteronomy 32:19). **A generation in which the fathers abhor the Holy One, Blessed be He, He is angered at their sons and their daughters, and they die when they are small.**


###### Ketubot 8b:5
[Ketubot 8b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:5)

וְאִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי בָּחוּר הֲוָה. וְהָכִי קָאָמַר לֵיהּ: ״עַל כֵּן עַל בַּחוּרָיו לֹא יִשְׂמַח ה׳ וְאֶת יְתוֹמָיו וְאֶת אַלְמְנוֹתָיו לֹא יְרַחֵם כִּי כֻלּוֹ חָנֵף וּמֵרַע וְכׇל פֶּה דֹּבֵר נְבָלָה בְּכׇל זֹאת לֹא שָׁב אַפּוֹ וְעוֹד יָדוֹ נְטוּיָה״. מַאי ״וְעוֹד יָדוֹ נְטוּיָה״? אָמַר רַב חָנָן בַּר רַב: הַכֹּל יוֹדְעִין כַּלָּה לָמָּה נִכְנְסָה לַחוּפָּה. אֶלָּא, כׇּל הַמְנַבֵּל פִּיו, וּמוֹצִיא דְּבַר נְבָלָה מִפִּיו, אֲפִלּוּ נֶחְתַּם לוֹ גְּזַר דִּינוֹ שֶׁל שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה לְטוֹבָה — נֶהְפָּךְ עָלָיו לְרָעָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And there are** those who **say** that the child who died **was** not a small child, but **a youth, and this is what** the disseminator **said to him: “Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, nor shall He have compassion on their orphans and widows, for everyone is a flatterer and an evildoer, and every mouth speaks obscenity. For all this His anger is not turned away, and His hand is still outstretched”** (Isaiah 9:16). **What** is the meaning of the phrase **“And His hand is still outstretched”? Rav Ḥanan bar Rav said: Everyone knows why a bride enters the wedding canopy.** It is the step before consummation of the marriage. **However,** one should not speak about it unnecessarily, as **anyone who profanes his mouth and issues a matter of profanity from his mouth, even if a positive decree of seventy years was sealed for him,** nevertheless, **it is transformed for him into an evil** decree.


###### Ketubot 8b:6
[Ketubot 8b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:6)

אֲתָא לְנַחוֹמֵי — צַעוֹרֵי קָמְצַעַר לֵיהּ! הָכִי קָאָמַר לֵיהּ: חֲשִׁיב אַתְּ לְאִתְּפוֹסֵי אַדָּרָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks about this incident: **He came** at the behest of Reish Lakish **to comfort** Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba **and** instead **he upset him** by attributing the death of his son to his transgressions! The Gemara answers: It was not his intention to upset Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba and to attribute the death of his son to his actions. Rather, **this is what he is saying to him: You are** sufficiently **significant to be seized,** i.e., to die or suffer, **for the** sins of the **generation,** as it is specifically the righteous few who are punished for the transgressions of a sinful generation.


###### Ketubot 8b:7
[Ketubot 8b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:7)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: קוּם אֵימָא מִלְּתָא כְּנֶגֶד שְׁבָחוֹ שֶׁל הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא. פָּתַח וְאָמַר: ״הָאֵל הַגָּדוֹל בְּרוֹב גׇּדְלוֹ, אַדִּיר וְחָזָק בְּרוֹב נוֹרָאוֹת, מְחַיֵּה מֵתִים בְּמַאֲמָרוֹ, עוֹשֶׂה גְדוֹלוֹת עַד אֵין חֵקֶר וְנִפְלָאוֹת עַד אֵין מִסְפָּר. בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה ה׳ מְחַיֵּה הַמֵּתִים״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Reish Lakish **said to his** disseminator: **Stand and say a statement with regard to the praiseworthiness of the Holy One, Blessed be He. He began and said: God, Who is great in the abundance of His greatness, mighty and strong in the abundance of His awesome** deeds, **Who revives the dead in** fulfillment of **His statement, Who does great deeds beyond comprehension, wondrous deeds without number. Blessed are You, Lord, Who revives the dead.**


###### Ketubot 8b:8
[Ketubot 8b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:8)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: קוּם אֵימָא מִלְּתָא כְּנֶגֶד אֲבֵלִים, פָּתַח וְאָמַר: ״אַחֵינוּ הַמְיוּגָּעִים, הַמְדוּכָּאִין בָּאֵבֶל הַזֶּה, תְּנוּ לְבַבְכֶם לַחְקוֹר אֶת זֹאת. זֹאת הִיא עוֹמֶדֶת לָעַד, נָתִיב הוּא מִשֵּׁשֶׁת יְמֵי בְרֵאשִׁית. רַבִּים שָׁתוּ, רַבִּים יִשְׁתּוּ. כְּמִשְׁתֵּה רִאשׁוֹנִים כָּךְ מִשְׁתֵּה אַחֲרוֹנִים. אַחֵינוּ, בַּעַל נֶחָמוֹת יְנַחֵם אֶתְכֶם. בָּרוּךְ מְנַחֵם אֲבֵלִים״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Reish Lakish **said to him: Stand and say a statement with regard to the mourners. He began and said: Our brothers, who are exhausted, who are overwhelmed by this mourning, set your heart to examine this: This is what stands forever. It is a path from the six days of Creation,** i.e., death exists since Creation, and it is well known that this is the fate of man. **Many have drunk** from the poisonous cup of death, **and many will drink. As** was the consequence of the **drink of the first** who have drunk, **so too** will be the consequence of the **drink of the last** who will drink. **Our brothers, may the Master of solace comfort you. Blessed** are You, Lord, **Who comforts the mourners.**


###### Ketubot 8b:9
[Ketubot 8b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:9)

אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: ״רַבִּים שָׁתוּ״ — לֵימָא. ״רַבִּים יִשְׁתּוּ״ — לָא לֵימָא. ״מִשְׁתֵּה רִאשׁוֹנִים״ — לֵימָא. ״מִשְׁתֵּה אַחֲרוֹנִים״ — לָא לֵימָא. דְּאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ, וְכֵן תָּנָא מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי: לְעוֹלָם אַל יִפְתַּח אָדָם פִּיו לַשָּׂטָן. אָמַר רַב יוֹסֵף, מַאי קְרָא: ״כִּסְדוֹם הָיִינוּ לַעֲמוֹרָה דָּמִינוּ״. מַאי אַהְדַּר לֵיהּ — ״שִׁמְעוּ דְבַר ה׳ קְצִינֵי סְדוֹם וְגוֹ׳״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Abaye said** with regard to the statement concerning the mourners: **Let him say: Many have drunk; let him not say: Many will drink. Let him say: The drink of the first; let him not say: The drink of the last.** This is **as Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said, and likewise it was taught in the name of Rabbi Yosei: A person should never open his mouth to Satan** and speculate about potential disasters. **Rav Yosef said: What is the verse** from which it is derived? **“We should have almost been as Sodom, we should have been like unto Gomorrah”** (Isaiah 1:9), after which, **what did** the prophet **reply to them? “Hear the word of the Lord, rulers of Sodom;** give ear unto the law of our God, people of Gomorrah” (Isaiah 1:10). Isaiah drew the analogy and immediately it was realized.


###### Ketubot 8b:10
[Ketubot 8b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:10)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: קוּם אֵימָא מִלְּתָא כְּנֶגֶד מְנַחֲמֵי אֲבֵלִים. פָּתַח וְאָמַר: ״אַחֵינוּ גּוֹמְלֵי חֲסָדִים בְּנֵי גּוֹמְלֵי חֲסָדִים, הַמַּחְזִיקִים בִּבְרִיתוֹ שֶׁל אַבְרָהָם אָבִינוּ (שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ׳כִּי יְדַעְתִּיו לְמַעַן אֲשֶׁר יְצַוֶּה אֶת בָּנָיו וְגוֹ׳׳). אַחֵינוּ, בַּעַל הַגְּמוּל יְשַׁלֵּם לָכֶם גְּמוּלְכֶם. בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה, מְשַׁלֵּם הַגְּמוּל״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Reish Lakish **said to** the disseminator: **Stand and say a statement with regard to those who comfort the mourners. He began and said: Our brothers, bestowers of loving-kindness, sons of bestowers of loving-kindness, who embrace the covenant of Abraham our Patriarch, as it is stated: “For I know him, that he will command his children…**to do righteousness and justice” (Genesis 18:19). **Our brothers, may the Master of reward pay you your just deserts. Blessed are You,** Lord, **Who pays the just deserts.**


###### Ketubot 8b:11
[Ketubot 8b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:11)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: קוּם אֵימָא מִלְּתָא כְּנֶגֶד כׇּל יִשְׂרָאֵל. פָּתַח וְאָמַר: ״רִבּוֹן הָעוֹלָמִים, פְּדֵה וְהַצֵּל, מַלֵּט, הוֹשַׁע עַמְּךָ יִשְׂרָאֵל מִן הַדֶּבֶר וּמִן הַחֶרֶב וּמִן הַבִּיזָּה וּמִן הַשִּׁדָּפוֹן וּמִן הַיֵּרָקוֹן וּמִכׇּל מִינֵי פּוּרְעָנִיּוֹת הַמִּתְרַגְּשׁוֹת וּבָאוֹת לָעוֹלָם, טֶרֶם נִקְרָא וְאַתָּה תַּעֲנֶה. בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה, עוֹצֵר הַמַּגֵּפָה״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Reish Lakish **said to** the disseminator: **Stand and say a statement with regard to the entire Jewish people. He began and said: Master of the worlds, redeem and save, rescue and deliver Your people, Israel, from the pestilence and from the sword, and from spoil, and from the blight, and from the mildew, and from all types of afflictions that suddenly erupt and come to the world. Before we call and You will respond. Blessed are You,** Lord, **Who halts the plague.** Apparently, several blessings are recited on the days following the burial.


###### Ketubot 8b:12
[Ketubot 8b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:12)

אֲמַר עוּלָּא, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ בְּמַתְנִיתָא תָּנָא: עֲשָׂרָה כּוֹסוֹת תִּקְּנוּ חֲכָמִים בְּבֵית הָאֵבֶל: שְׁלֹשָׁה קוֹדֶם אֲכִילָה, כְּדֵי לִפְתּוֹחַ אֶת בְּנֵי מֵעָיו. שְׁלֹשָׁה בְּתוֹךְ אֲכִילָה, כְּדֵי לִשְׁרוֹת אֲכִילָה שֶׁבְּמֵעָיו. וְאַרְבָּעָה לְאַחַר אֲכִילָה, אֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד ״הַזָּן״, וְאֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד בִּרְכַּת הָאָרֶץ, וְאֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד ״בּוֹנֵה יְרוּשָׁלָיִם״, וְאֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד ״הַטּוֹב וְהַמֵּטִיב״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ In connection with comforting mourners, **Ulla said, and some say that it was taught in a *baraita*: The Sages instituted ten cups** of wine to be drunk **in the house of the mourner: Three** cups **prior to** the **meal, in order to open his intestines,** i.e., whet his appetite; **three during** the **meal, to soak the food in his intestines** in order to facilitate digestion; **and four** cups **after** the **meal,** each corresponding to a blessing in the Grace after Meals. **One corresponds to** the first blessing: **Who feeds** all; **one corresponds to the** second blessing, the **blessing of the land; one corresponding to the third blessing: Who builds Jerusalem; and one corresponding to** the fourth blessing: **Who is good and does good.**


###### Ketubot 8b:13
[Ketubot 8b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:13)

הוֹסִיפוּ עֲלֵיהֶם אַרְבָּעָה: אֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד חַזָּנֵי הָעִיר, וְאֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד פַּרְנָסֵי הָעִיר, וְאֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד בֵּית הַמִּקְדָּשׁ, וְאֶחָד כְּנֶגֶד רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל. הִתְחִילוּ (הָיוּ) שׁוֹתִין וּמִשְׁתַּכְּרִין, הֶחְזִירוּ הַדָּבָר לְיוֹשְׁנָהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Later, the Sages **added to those four** additional blessings: **One, noting** the actions of **the attendants of the city [*ḥazzanei ha’ir*],** who tend to burials and other communal needs; **one, noting** the actions of **the leaders of the city,** who would provide funding for the burial of the poor; **one, noting the Temple,** commemorating its destruction; **and one, noting** the actions of **Rabban Gamliel.** The people **began** observing this ordinance instituted by the Sages, **and they would drink and become intoxicated.** Therefore, the Sages **restored the matter to its previous** status and established that they drink no more than ten cups.


###### Ketubot 8b:14
[Ketubot 8b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:14)

מַאי רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל? דְּתַנְיָא: בָּרִאשׁוֹנָה הָיְתָה הוֹצָאַת הַמֵּת קָשָׁה לִקְרוֹבָיו יוֹתֵר מִמִּיתָתוֹ, עַד שֶׁהָיוּ מַנִּיחִים אוֹתוֹ וּבוֹרְחִין. עַד שֶׁבָּא רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל וְנָהַג קַלּוּת בְּעַצְמוֹ, וְהוֹצִיאוּהוּ בִּכְלֵי פִשְׁתָּן. וְנָהֲגוּ כׇּל הָעָם אַחֲרָיו לְהוֹצִיא בִּכְלֵי פִשְׁתָּן. אֲמַר רַב פָּפָּא: וְהָאִידָּנָא נְהוּג עָלְמָא אֲפִילּוּ בְּצַרְדָּא בַּר זוּזָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**What** is the connection between **Rabban Gamliel** and a house of mourning? It is **as it is taught** in a *baraita*: **Initially, the funeral** expenditures **for the deceased were more taxing for his relatives than his death,** as the burials were opulent, **until** it reached a point where people **would abandon the deceased and flee.** This continued **until Rabbi Gamliel came and conducted himself in a self-deprecatory** manner, instructing the people that they were **to take him** for burial **in** plain **linen garments. And all the people conducted themselves following his** example, and instructed their families **to take** them for burial **in** plain **linen garments. Rav Pappa said: And today, everyone is accustomed** to bury the dead in plain garments, **even in rough cloth [*tzerada*] worth one *zuz*.**


###### Ketubot 8b:15
[Ketubot 8b:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Ketubot/r/8b:15)

אֲמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר:

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Elazar said:**