## Kiddushin Daf 12a

###### Kiddushin 12a:1
[Kiddushin 12a:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:1)

לָא סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ – דּוּמְיָא דְּיִיעוּד, מַה יִיעוּד, אַף עַל גַּב דְּאִי בָּעֵי מְיַיעֵד וְאִי בָּעֵי לָא מְיַיעֵד, כֹּל הֵיכָא דְּלָא מָצֵי מְיַיעֵד – לָא הָווּ זְבִינָא זְבִינֵי, הָכִי נָמֵי כֹּל הֵיכָא דְּלָא מָצְיָ[א] מְיגָרְעָא – לָא הָווּ זְבִינָא זְבִינֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara rejects this suggestion: This **cannot enter your mind,** as the *halakha* of deduction must be **similar** to the *halakha* of **designation,** i.e., the process by which a master designates his Hebrew maidservant as a wife for him or his son (Exodus 21:8–9). **Just as** with **designation, although** the *halakha* is that **if he desires, he may designate** her **and if he does not desire, he** is **not** required to **designate** her, nevertheless **anywhere that he cannot designate** her, e.g., in a case where they are related and she is therefore forbidden to him, **her sale is not** a valid **sale, so too** here, with regard to her redemption, **anywhere that she cannot deduct** an amount from her purchase price, **her sale is not** a valid **sale.**


###### Kiddushin 12a:2
[Kiddushin 12a:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:2)

וְקִידּוּשֵׁי אִשָּׁה לְבֵית שַׁמַּאי נָפְקָא לְהוּ מֵאָמָה הָעִבְרִיָּה: מָה אָמָה הָעִבְרִיָּה בִּפְרוּטָה לָא מִקַּנְיָא, אַף אִשָּׁה בִּפְרוּטָה לָא מִיקַּדְּשָׁא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara notes: **And according to** the opinion of **Beit Shammai** the mode of **betrothal of a woman** by money **is derived from** the case of **a Hebrew maidservant,** as follows: **Just as a Hebrew maidservant cannot be acquired with one *peruta*, so too a woman cannot be betrothed with one *peruta*.**


###### Kiddushin 12a:3
[Kiddushin 12a:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:3)

וְאֵימָא פַּלְגָא דְּדִינָר, וְאֵימָא שְׁתֵּי פְּרוּטוֹת! כֵּיוָן דְּאַפִּיקְתֵּיהּ מִפְּרוּטָה – אוֹקְמַהּ אַדִּינָר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: Even if Beit Shammai derive their opinion from here, how does this prove that a woman can be betrothed only with a minimum of one dinar? **But** why not **say** she can be betrothed with **half a dinar, or say** that she can be betrothed with **two *perutot*,** as it is possible to fulfill the redemption of a Hebrew maidservant if her sale was for either of these amounts? The Gemara answers: **Since** this comparison **excludes** betrothal **with one *peruta*,** as it indicates that a woman can be betrothed only with money of significant value, the Sages **established** the minimum amount **at one dinar,** which is a coin of substantial value.


###### Kiddushin 12a:4
[Kiddushin 12a:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:4)

רָבָא אָמַר: הַיְינוּ טַעְמָא דְּבֵית שַׁמַּאי: שֶׁלֹּא יְהוּ בְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל כְּהֶפְקֵר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rava said** a different explanation: **This is the reasoning of Beit Shammai,** who hold that a woman can be betrothed only with a minimum of one dinar: **The daughters of Israel should not be** treated **like ownerless** property. Allowing women to be betrothed with such a small amount as one *peruta* is disrespectful to them.


###### Kiddushin 12a:5
[Kiddushin 12a:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:5)

וּבֵית הִלֵּל אוֹמְרִים בִּפְרוּטָה. סָבַר רַב יוֹסֵף לְמֵימַר: פְּרוּטָה כָּל דְּהוּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: וְהָא עֲלַהּ קָתָנֵי: כַּמָּה הִיא פְּרוּטָה – אֶחָד מִשְּׁמֹנָה בָּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The mishna teaches: **And Beit Hillel say** that a woman can be betrothed **with one *peruta*,** or with any item that is worth one *peruta*. **Rav Yosef thought to say: One *peruta*** means **any amount.** There is no defined value, as a woman may be betrothed with one *peruta* regardless of its value at the time. **Abaye said to him: But isn’t it taught with regard to** this in the mishna itself: **How much is one *peruta*?** It is **one-eighth of the Italian *issar*.** This shows there is a defined value for one *peruta*.


###### Kiddushin 12a:6
[Kiddushin 12a:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:6)

וְכִי תֵּימָא: הָנֵי מִילֵּי בְּדוֹרוֹ שֶׁל מֹשֶׁה, אֲבָל הָכָא כְּדַחֲשִׁבָה לְהוּ לְאִינָשֵׁי – וְהָא כִּי אֲתָא רַב דִּימִי אָמַר: שִׁיעֵר רַבִּי סִימַאי בְּדוֹרוֹ כַּמָּה הִיא פְּרוּטָה: אֶחָד מִשְּׁמֹנָה בָּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי, וְכִי אֲתָא רָבִין אָמַר: רַבִּי דּוֹסְתַּאי וְרַבִּי יַנַּאי וְרַבִּי אוֹשַׁעְיָא שִׁיעֲרוּ כַּמָּה הָוֵי פְּרוּטָה – אֶחָד מִשִּׁשָּׁה בְּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And if you would say: This statement** applies **only to the generation of Moses,** i.e., this was the value of one *peruta* in the time of the Torah, **but now,** at any later time, its value is determined by **that which people consider** one *peruta*, that claim cannot be correct. **As when Rav Dimi came** from Eretz Yisrael **he said: Rabbi Simai estimated in his generation: How much is one *peruta*?** It is **one-eighth of the Italian *issar*. And when Ravin came** from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia **he said** that **Rabbi Dostai and Rabbi Yannai and Rabbi Oshaya estimated: How much is one *peruta*?** It is **one-sixth of the Italian *issar*.**


###### Kiddushin 12a:7
[Kiddushin 12a:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:7)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב יוֹסֵף: אִי הָכִי, הַיְינוּ דְּתָנֵינָא: ״צֵא וַחֲשׁוֹב כַּמָּה פְּרוּטוֹת בִּשְׁנֵי סְלָעִים – יוֹתֵר מֵאַלְפַּיִם״ – הַשְׁתָּא אַלְפַּיִם לָא הָוְיָין, יָתֵר מֵאַלְפַּיִם קָרֵי לְהוּ? אֲמַר לְהוּ הַהוּא סָבָא: אֲנָא תְּנֵינָא לַהּ: ״קָרוֹב לְאַלְפַּיִם״. סוֹף סוֹף אַלְפָּא וַחֲמֵשׁ מְאָה וּתְלָתִין וְשִׁיתָּא הוּא דְּהָוְיָין! כֵּיוָן דְּנָפְקָא לְהוּ מִפַּלְגָא – קָרוֹב לְאַלְפַּיִם קָרֵי לֵיהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Yosef said to** Abaye: **If so,** then **this is** in conflict with that **which we learned** in a *baraita*: **Go and calculate how many *perutot* there are in two *sela*: More than two thousand. Now there are not** even **two thousand, and you call them: More than two thousand?** Rather, the *peruta* is certainly worth less than one-eighth of the Italian *issar*. **A certain old man said to them: I teach this** *baraita* as saying: **Close to two thousand.** The Gemara asks: **Ultimately,** according to the calculation of one-eighth of an *issar*, the number of *perutot* in two *sela* **is 1,536,** which is nowhere near two thousand. The Gemara answers: **Since it passes half** of the second thousand **it is called: Close to two thousand.**


###### Kiddushin 12a:8
[Kiddushin 12a:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:8)

גּוּפָא, כִּי אֲתָא רַב דִּימִי אָמַר: שִׁיעֵר רַבִּי סִימַאי בְּדוֹרוֹ כַּמָּה הִיא פְּרוּטָה – אֶחָד מִשְּׁמֹנָה בָּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי, וְכִי אֲתָא רָבִין אָמַר: שִׁיעֲרוּ רַבִּי דּוֹסְתַּאי וְרַבִּי יַנַּאי וְרַבִּי אוֹשַׁעְיָא כַּמָּה הִיא פְּרוּטָה – אֶחָד מִשִּׁשָּׁה בָּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי. אָמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי לְרַב דִּימִי: נֵימָא, אַתְּ וְרָבִין בִּפְלוּגְתָּא דְהָנֵי תַּנָּאֵי קָא מִיפַּלְגִיתוּ,

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara discusses **the** matter **itself. When Rav Dimi came** from Eretz Yisrael **he said: Rabbi Simai estimated in his generation: How much is one *peruta*?** It is **one-eighth of the Italian *issar*. And when Ravin came he said** that **Rabbi Dostai and Rabbi Yannai and Rabbi Oshaya estimated: How much is one *peruta*?** It is **one-sixth of the Italian *issar*. Abaye said to Rav Dimi: Shall we say** that **you and Ravin disagree with regard to** the issue that is the subject of **the dispute between these *tanna’im*.**


###### Kiddushin 12a:9
[Kiddushin 12a:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:9)

דְּתַנְיָא: פְּרוּטָה שֶׁאָמְרוּ חֲכָמִים – אֶחָד מִשְּׁמֹנָה בָּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי, שֵׁשׁ מָעָה כֶּסֶף – דִּינָר, מָעָה – שְׁנֵי פּוּנְדְּיוֹנִין, פּוּנְדְּיוֹן – שְׁנֵי אִיסָּרִין, אִיסָּר – שְׁנֵי מִסְמֵיסִים, מִסְמֵס – שְׁנֵי קוּנְטְרוֹנְקִין, קוּנְטְרֹנְק – שְׁתֵּי פְרוּטוֹת. נִמְצָא, פְּרוּטָה – אֶחָד מִשְּׁמֹנָה בָּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**As it is taught** in a *baraita*: The ***peruta* mentioned by the Sages** is **one-eighth of the Italian *issar*. Six silver *ma’a*** are one **dinar,** and one ***ma’a*** is worth **two *pundeyon*.** In **a *pundeyon*** there are **two *issar*,** and **an *issar*** is **two *masmas*. A *masmas*** is worth **two *konterank*,** and a ***konterank*** is **two *perutot*.** By this calculation, one **finds** that **one *peruta*** is **one-eighth of the Italian *issar*.**


###### Kiddushin 12a:10
[Kiddushin 12a:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:10)

רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר: שְׁלֹשָׁה הַדְרֵסִין לְמָעָה, שְׁנֵי הַנְצִין לְהַדְרֵיס, שְׁנֵי שְׁמֵנִין לַהֲנֵץ, שְׁתֵּי פְרוּטוֹת לְשָׁמֵין, נִמְצָא, פְּרוּטָה – אֶחָד מִשִּׁשָּׁה בְּאִיסָּר הָאִיטַלְקִי. לֵימָא דְּמָר אָמַר כְּתַנָּא קַמָּא וְרָבִין דְּאָמַר כְּרַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says:** This is not the case; rather, there are **three *hadreis* to a *ma’a*, two *henetz* to a *hadreis*, two *shamin* to a *henetz*,** and **two *perutot* to a *shamin*.** Consequently, one **finds** that one ***peruta*** is **one-sixth of the Italian *issar*. Shall we say that** one **Master agrees with the first *tanna*, and Ravin, who said** his ruling in the name of Rabbi Dostai and Rabbi Yannai and Rabbi Oshaya, **agrees with Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel?**


###### Kiddushin 12a:11
[Kiddushin 12a:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:11)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: בֵּין דִּידִי וּבֵין רָבִין אַלִּיבָּא דְּתַנָּא קַמָּא, וְלָא קַשְׁיָא: הָא – דְּאִיַּקּוּר אִיסּוּרֵי, הָא – דְּזוּל אִיסּוּרֵי. הָא דְּאִיַּקּוּר אִיסּוּרֵי – קוּם עֶשְׂרִים וְאַרְבַּע בְּזוּזָא, הָא דְּזוּל – קוּם תְּלָתִין וּתְרֵין בְּזוּזָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rav Dimi **said to** Abaye: **Both my** statement **and** that of **Ravin** are **in accordance with** the opinion of **the first *tanna*, and it** is **not difficult. This** statement of mine is referring to **when** the ***issar* increased in value** in relation to silver coins, and **this** statement of Ravin is referring to **when** the ***issar* decreased in value.** The Gemara elaborates: **When** the ***issar* increased in value, twenty-four** *issar* **stood at one dinar; when** they **decreased in value, thirty-two** *issar* **stood at one dinar.** If so, there is a set ratio between the value of a *peruta* and the value of silver, and there are 192 *perutot* in one dinar. By contrast, the ratio between the value of a copper *issar* and silver dinars fluctuates, so that sometimes an *issar* will be worth eight *perutot* while at other times it is worth only six.


###### Kiddushin 12a:12
[Kiddushin 12a:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:12)

אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: קִידְּשָׁהּ בִּתְמָרָה, אֲפִילּוּ עוֹמֵד כּוֹר תְּמָרִים בְּדִינָר – מְקוּדֶּשֶׁת; חָיְישִׁינַן שֶׁמָּא שָׁוֶה פְּרוּטָה בְּמָדַי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ **Shmuel says:** If man **betrothed** a woman **with a date, she is betrothed even** if **a *kor* of dates is worth one dinar,** which would mean that one date is worth much less than one *peruta*. The reason is that although a date has little value here, **we are concerned that perhaps it is worth one *peruta* in Media** or in some other distant place where dates are expensive. Therefore, she is betrothed in this location as well.


###### Kiddushin 12a:13
[Kiddushin 12a:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:13)

וְהָא אֲנַן תְּנַן: בֵּית הִלֵּל אוֹמְרִים בִּפְרוּטָה וּבְשָׁוֶה פְּרוּטָה! לָא קַשְׁיָא, הָא בְּקִידּוּשֵׁי וַדַּאי, הָא בְּקִידּוּשֵׁי סָפֵק.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **But didn’t we learn** in the **mishna** that **Beit Hillel say: With one *peruta* or with** an item **worth one *peruta*,** but not less? The Gemara explains: This is **not difficult. This** statement in the mishna is referring **to betrothal** whose status is **certain.** Betrothal with one *peruta* or an item worth one *peruta* is certainly valid. Conversely, **this** case stated by Shmuel is referring **to betrothal** whose status is **uncertain.** Although the item is not worth one *peruta* here, there is a concern that the betrothal might nevertheless be valid.


###### Kiddushin 12a:14
[Kiddushin 12a:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:14)

הָהוּא גַּבְרָא דְּאקַדֵּישׁ בִּזְווֹדָא דְּאוּדְרֵי, יָתֵיב רַב שִׁימִי בַּר חִיָּיא קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב וְקָא מְעַיֵּין בַּהּ, אִי אִית בַּהּ שָׁוֶה פְּרוּטָה – אִין, אִי לָא – לָא. וְאִי לֵית בַּהּ שָׁוֶה פְּרוּטָה לָא? וְהָאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: חָיְישִׁינַן! לָא קַשְׁיָא, הָא בְּקִידּוּשֵׁי וַדַּאי, הָא בְּקִידּוּשֵׁי סָפֵק.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara relates: There was **a certain man who betrothed** a woman **with a bundle of rags [*zavda de’urdei*]. Rav Shimi bar Ḥiyya sat before Rav and examined** the bundle to see **if it had the value of one *peruta*.** If it was worth one *peruta*, **yes,** she was betrothed, **and if not, no,** she was not betrothed. The Gemara asks: **And if it does not have the value of one *peruta*,** is she **not** betrothed? **But didn’t Shmuel say** that **we are concerned** that the item might be worth one *peruta* in Media? The Gemara explains: This is **not difficult. This** ruling of Rav Shimi bar Ḥiyya is referring **to betrothal** whose status is **certain,** whereas **this** statement of Shmuel is referring **to betrothal** whose status is **uncertain.**


###### Kiddushin 12a:15
[Kiddushin 12a:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:15)

הָהוּא גַּבְרָא דְּאקַדֵּישׁ בְּאַבְנָא דְכוּחְלָא, יָתֵיב רַב חִסְדָּא וְקָא מְשַׁעֵר לַיהּ, אִי אִית בַּהּ שָׁוֶה פְּרוּטָה – אִין, וְאִי לָא – לָא. וְאִי לֵית בַּהּ שָׁוֶה פְּרוּטָה לָא? וְהָא אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: חָיְישִׁינַן! רַב חִסְדָּא לָא סָבַר לֵיהּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara further relates: There was **a certain man who betrothed** a woman **with a blue marble stone. Rav Ḥisda sat and estimated** whether **it** was worth one *peruta*. **If it was worth one *peruta*, yes,** she was betrothed, **and if not, no,** she was not betrothed. The Gemara asks: **And if it does not have the value of one *peruta*,** is she **not** betrothed? **But didn’t Shmuel say** that **we are concerned** that the item might be worth one *peruta* in Media? The Gemara answers: **Rav Ḥisda does not hold** in accordance with **that** opinion **of Shmuel,** as he holds that if the item is not worth one *peruta* in the place where the betrothal occurred, the betrothal is invalid.


###### Kiddushin 12a:16
[Kiddushin 12a:16](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/12a:16)

אֲמַרָה לֵיהּ אִימֵּיהּ: וְהָא הָהוּא יוֹמָא דְּקַדְּשַׁהּ הֲוָה בַּהּ שָׁוֶה פְּרוּטָה! אֲמַר לַהּ: לָאו כָּל כְּמִינָּךְ דְּאָסְרַתְּ לַהּ אַבָּתְרָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**The mother of** the man who offered the betrothal **said to** Rav Ḥisda: **But on that day that he betrothed her it was worth one *peruta*. He said to** the mother: **It is not in your** power **to render her forbidden to a later** man. If another comes and betroths her, his betrothal is not dismissed due to this earlier act. Since the marble stone is not worth one *peruta* now, the betrothal of the second man may be valid.