## Kiddushin Daf 70b

###### Kiddushin 70b:1
[Kiddushin 70b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:1)

אֵין שׁוֹאֲלִין בִּשְׁלוֹם אִשָּׁה. עַל יְדֵי בַּעְלָהּ! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָכִי אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵין שׁוֹאֲלִין בִּשְׁלוֹם אִשָּׁה כְּלָל. שְׁלַחָה לֵיהּ דְּבֵיתְהוּ: שְׁרִי לֵיהּ תִּגְרֵיהּ דְּלָא נִישַׁוְּויָךְ כִּשְׁאָר עַם הָאָרֶץ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**One may not send greetings to a woman** even with a messenger, as this may cause the messenger and the woman to relate to each other inappropriately. Rav Naḥman countered by suggesting that he send his greetings **with her husband,** which would remove all concerns. Rav Yehuda **said to him: This is what Shmuel says: One may not send greetings to a woman at all.** Yalta, **his wife,** who overheard that Rav Yehuda was getting the better of the exchange, **sent** a message **to him: Release him** and conclude your business with him, **so that he not equate you with another ignoramus.**


###### Kiddushin 70b:2
[Kiddushin 70b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:2)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מַאי שְׁיָאטֵיהּ דְּמָר הָכָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: טַסְקָא דְהַזְמָנוּתָא שַׁדַּר מָר אַבָּתְרַאי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הַשְׁתָּא שׁוּתָא דְמָר לָא גְּמִירְנָא, טַסְקָא דְהַזְמָנוּתָא מְשַׁדַּרְנָא לְמָר?! אַפֵּיק דִּיסְקָא דְהַזְמָנוּתָא מִבֵּי חָדֵיהּ וְאַחְזִי לֵיהּ, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָא גַּבְרָא וְהָא דִּסְקָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הוֹאִיל וַאֲתָא מָר לְהָכָא לִישְׁתַּעֵי מִילֵּיהּ כִּי הֵיכִי דְּלָא לֵימְרוּ מְחַנְּפִי רַבָּנַן אַהֲדָדֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Desiring to release Rav Yehuda, Rav Naḥman **said to him: What is the reason** that **the Master is here?** Rav Yehuda **said to him: The Master sent me a summons.** Rav Naḥman **said to him: Now** that **I have not** even **learned the Master’s** form of **speech,** as you have demonstrated your superiority to me by reproving me even over such matters, **could I** have **sent a summons to the Master?** Rav Yehuda **removed the summons from his bosom and showed it to him.** While doing so, Rav Yehuda **said to him: Here is the man and here is the document.** Rav Naḥman **said to him: Since the Master has come here, let him present his statement, in order that** people **should not say: The Sages flatter one another** and do not judge each other according to the letter of the law.


###### Kiddushin 70b:3
[Kiddushin 70b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:3)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מַאי טַעְמָא שַׁמְּתֵיהּ מָר לְהָהוּא גַּבְרָא? – צַיעַר שְׁלִיחָא דְרַבָּנַן. וְנַגְּדֵיהּ מָר, דְּרַב מְנַגֵּיד עַל מַאן דִּמְצַעַר שְׁלוּחָא דְרַבָּנַן. דַּעֲדִיף מִינֵּיהּ עֲבַדִי לֵיהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rav Naḥman commenced the deliberation, and **said to him: What is the reason** that **the Master excommunicated that man?** Rav Yehuda replied: **He caused discomfort to an agent** of one **of the Sages,** and therefore he deserved the punishment of one who causes discomfort to a Torah scholar. Rav Naḥman challenged this answer: If so, **let the Master flog him, as Rav would flog one who causes discomfort to an agent of the Sages.** Rav Yehuda responded: **I** punished **him more severely than that.** Rabbi Yehuda held that excommunication is a more severe punishment than flogging.


###### Kiddushin 70b:4
[Kiddushin 70b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:4)

מַאי טַעְמָא אַכְרֵיז מָר עֲלֵיהּ דְּעַבְדָּא הוּא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: דִּרְגִיל דְּקָרֵי אִינָשֵׁי ״עַבְדֵי״, וְתָנֵי: כׇּל הַפּוֹסֵל – פָּסוּל, וְאֵינוֹ מְדַבֵּר בִּשְׁבָחָא לְעוֹלָם. וְאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: בְּמוּמוֹ פּוֹסֵל. אֵימַר דְּאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל לְמֵיחַשׁ לֵיהּ, לְאַכְרוֹזֵי עֲלֵיהּ מִי אָמַר?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rav Naḥman further inquired: **What is the reason** that **the Master proclaimed about him that he is a slave?** Rav Yehuda **said to him:** Because he **is in the habit of calling people slaves, and** it **is taught: Anyone who disqualifies** others by stating that their lineage is flawed, that is a sign that he himself **is** of **flawed** lineage. Another indication of his lineage being flawed is that **he never speaks in praise** of others. **And Shmuel said: He disqualifies with his** own **flaw.** Rav Naḥman retorted: You can **say that Shmuel said** this *halakha* only **to** the degree that one should **suspect him** of being of flawed lineage. But **did he** actually **say** this **to** the extent that one could **proclaim about him** that he is of flawed lineage?


###### Kiddushin 70b:5
[Kiddushin 70b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:5)

אַדְּהָכִי וְהָכִי (אֲתָא הַהוּא בַּר דִּינֵיהּ מִנְּהַרְדָּעֵי). אֲמַר לֵיהּ הָהוּא בַּר דִּינֵיהּ לְרַב יְהוּדָה: לְדִידִי קָרֵית לִי ״עַבְדָּא״, דְּאָתֵינָא מִבֵּית חַשְׁמוֹנַאי מַלְכָּא?! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָכִי אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: כֹּל דְּאָמַר מִדְּבֵית חַשְׁמוֹנַאי קָאָתֵינָא – עַבְדָּא הוּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara continues the story: **Meanwhile, that litigant arrived from Neharde’a. That litigant said to Rav Yehuda: You call me a slave? I, who come from the house of the Hasmonean kings?** Rav Yehuda **said to him: This is what Shmuel says: Anyone who says: I come from the house of the Hasmonean** kings, **is a slave.** As will be explained, only slaves remained of their descendants.


###### Kiddushin 70b:6
[Kiddushin 70b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:6)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לָא סָבַר לַהּ מָר לְהָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי אַבָּא אָמַר רַב הוּנָא אָמַר רַב: כׇּל תַּלְמִיד חָכָם שֶׁמּוֹרֶה הֲלָכָה וּבָא, אִם קוֹדֶם מַעֲשֶׂה אֲמָרָהּ – שׁוֹמְעִין לוֹ, וְאִם לָאו – אֵין שׁוֹמְעִין לוֹ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָא אִיכָּא רַב מַתְנָה דְּקָאֵי כְּווֹתִי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rav Naḥman, who heard this exchange, **said to** Rav Yehuda: **Does the Master not hold in accordance with this** *halakha* **that Rabbi Abba says** that **Rav Huna says** that **Rav says:** With regard to **any Torah scholar who proceeds to teach** a ruling of ***halakha*** with regard to a particular issue, **if he said it before an action** that concerns himself occurred, **they** should **listen to him,** and his ruling is accepted. **But if not,** if he quoted the *halakha* only after he was involved in an incident related to the *halakha* he is quoting, **they do not listen to him,** due to his personal involvement? Your testimony with regard to what Shmuel ruled should be ignored, as you stated it only after the incident. Rav Yehuda **said to** Rav Naḥman: **There is Rav Mattana, who stands by my** report, since he has also heard this ruling of Shmuel.


###### Kiddushin 70b:7
[Kiddushin 70b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:7)

רַב מַתְנָה לָא חַזְיַיהּ לִנְהַרְדְּעָא תְּלֵיסַר שְׁנֵי. הָהוּא יוֹמָא אֲתָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: דְּכִיר מָר מַאי אֲמַר שְׁמוּאֵל כִּי קָאֵי חֲדָא כַּרְעָא אַגּוּדָּא וַחֲדָא כַּרְעָא בְּמַבָּרָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָכִי אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: כֹּל דְּאָמַר מִדְּבֵית חַשְׁמוֹנַאי מַלְכָּא קָאָתֵינָא – עַבְדָּא הוּא, דְּלָא אִישְׁתְּיוּר מִינַּיְיהוּ אֶלָּא הַהִיא רְבִיתָא דְּסָלְקָא לְאִיגָּרָא וְרָמְיָא קָלָא וְאָמְרָה: כֹּל דְּאָמַר מִבֵּית חַשְׁמוֹנַאי אֲנָא – עַבְדָּא הוּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara continues: **Rav Mattana had not seen** the city of **Neharde’a** for **thirteen years. That** very **day he arrived.** Rav Yehuda **said to him:** Does **the Master remember what Shmuel said when he was standing** with **one foot on the bank and one foot on the ferry?** Rav Mattana **said to him: This is what Shmuel said** at that time: **Anyone who says: I come from the house of the Hasmonean** kings, **is a slave, as none remained of them except for that young girl who ascended to the roof and raised her voice and said:** From now on, **anyone who says: I come from the house of the Hasmonean** kings, **is a slave.** Other than this girl, the only members of the family who remained were descendants of Herod, and he was an Edomite slave.


###### Kiddushin 70b:8
[Kiddushin 70b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:8)

נְפַלָה מֵאִיגָּרָא וּמִיתָה. אַכְרוּז עֲלֵיהּ דְּעַבְדָּא הוּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The girl then **fell from the roof and died,** leaving only slaves from the Hasmoneans. With the confirmation of the report of the statement of Shmuel, **they** also **publicized** in Neharde’a **about him,** i.e., that man who claimed to come from the Hasmonean kings, **that he was a slave.**


###### Kiddushin 70b:9
[Kiddushin 70b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:9)

הָהוּא יוֹמָא אִקַּרְעָן כַּמָּה כְּתוּבָּתָא בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא. כִּי קָא נָפֵיק, נָפְקִי אַבָּתְרֵיהּ לְמִירְגְּמֵיהּ. אֲמַר לְהוּ: אִי (שְׁתִיקוּ) [שָׁתְקִיתוּ] – שְׁתִיקוּ, וְאִי לָא מְגַלֵּינָא עֲלַיְיכוּ הָא דְּאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל תַּרְתֵּי זַרְעֲיָיתָא אִיכָּא בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא: חֲדָא מִיקַּרְיָא דְּבֵי יוֹנָה, וַחֲדָא מִיקַּרְיָא דְּבֵי עוֹרַבְתִּי. וְסִימָנָיךְ: טָמֵא – טָמֵא, טָהוֹר – טָהוֹר. שַׁדְיוּהּ לְהָהוּא רִיגְמָא מִידַיְיהוּ וְקָם אַטְמָא בִּנְהַר מַלְכָּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara relates: On **that day, several marriage contracts were torn up in Neharde’a,** as many had their marriages annulled after having discovered that they had married slaves. **When** Rav Yehuda **was leaving** Neharde’a, **they pursued him,** seeking **to stone him,** as because of him it was publicized that their lineage was flawed. Rav Yehuda **said to them: If you are silent,** remain **silent. And if** you will **not** remain silent, **I will reveal about you this** statement **that Shmuel said: There are two** lines of **offspring in Neharde’a. One is called the dove’s house, and one is called the raven’s house. And your mnemonic** with regard to lineage is: The **impure** bird, the raven, is **impure,** meaning flawed, and the **pure** one, the dove, is **pure,** meaning unflawed. Upon hearing this, **they threw** all **those** stones that they were intending **to stone him** with **from their hands,** as they did not want him to reveal who had a flawed lineage. **And** as a result of all of the stones thrown into the river, **a dam arose in the Malka River.**


###### Kiddushin 70b:10
[Kiddushin 70b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:10)

מַכְרִיז רַב יְהוּדָה בְּפוּמְבְּדִיתָא: אַדָּא וְיוֹנָתָן – עַבְדֵי. יְהוּדָה בַּר פָּפָּא – מַמְזֵירָא, בָּטִי בַּר טוֹבִיָּה בְּרָמוּת רוּחָא לָא שָׁקֵיל גִּיטָּא דְחֵירוּתָא. מַכְרֵיז רָבָא בְּמָחוֹזָא: בַּלָּאֵי, דַּנָּאֵי, טַלָּאֵי, מַלָּאֵי, זַגָּאֵי – כּוּלָּם לִפְסוּל. אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה: גּוֹבָאֵי – גִּבְעוֹנָאֵי, דּוּרְנוּנִיתָא – דָּרָאֵי נְתִינָאֵי. אָמַר רַב יוֹסֵף: הַאי בֵּי כוּבֵּי דְפוּמְבְּדִיתָא – כּוּלָּם דְּעַבְדֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The Gemara continues the discussion of those with a flawed lineage: **Rav Yehuda proclaimed in Pumbedita: Adda and Yonatan,** known residents of that town, are **slaves; Yehuda bar Pappa** is a ***mamzer*; Bati bar Tuviyya, in his arrogance, did not accept a bill of manumission** and is still a slave. **Rava proclaimed in** his city of **Meḥoza: Balla’ai, Danna’ai, Talla’ai, Malla’ai, Zagga’ai: All** these families **are** of **flawed** lineage. **Rav Yehuda** likewise **says: Gova’ai,** the inhabitants of a place called Gova, are in fact **Gibeonites,** and their name has been corrupted. Similarly, those people known as **Dorenunita** are from **the village of Gibeonites,** and they may not marry Jews with unflawed lineage. **Rav Yosef says:** With regard to **this** place called **Bei Kuvei of Pumbedita,** its residents **are all** descendants **of slaves.**


###### Kiddushin 70b:11
[Kiddushin 70b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:11)

אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: אַרְבַּע מֵאוֹת עֲבָדִים, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ אַרְבַּעַת אֲלָפִים עֲבָדִים הָיוּ לוֹ לְפַשְׁחוּר בֶּן אִימֵּר, וְכוּלָּם נִטְמְעוּ בַּכְּהוּנָּה. וְכׇל כֹּהֵן שֶׁיֵּשׁ בּוֹ עַזּוּת פָּנִים אֵינוֹ אֶלָּא מֵהֶם. אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: כּוּלְּהוּ יָתְבָן בְּשׁוּרָא דְבִנְהַרְדְּעָא. וּפְלִיגָא דְּרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר, דְּאָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר: אִם רָאִיתָ כֹּהֵן בְּעַזּוּת מֵצַח – אַל תְּהַרְהֵר אַחֲרָיו, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְעַמְּךָ כִּמְרִיבֵי כֹהֵן״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Yehuda says** that **Shmuel says: Four hundred slaves, and some say four thousand slaves, were owned by Pashḥur ben Immer,** a priest in the time of Jeremiah, **and** due to their greatness **they were assimilated into the priesthood** and became known as priests. **And any priest who has** the trait of **insolence is only from them. Abaye said: They all sit in the rows** of honor **that are in** the city of **Neharde’a.** The Gemara comments: And this statement **disagrees with** the statement **of Rabbi Elazar, as Rabbi Elazar says: If you see an insolent priest, do not speculate about him** that he may be of flawed lineage, **since it is stated: “For your people are as those who strive with a priest”** (Hosea 4:4), which indicates that priests had a reputation for being cantankerous.


###### Kiddushin 70b:12
[Kiddushin 70b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:12)

אָמַר רַבִּי אָבִין בַּר רַב אַדָּא אָמַר רַב: כׇּל הַנּוֹשֵׂא אִשָּׁה שֶׁאֵינָהּ הוֹגֶנֶת לוֹ, כְּשֶׁהַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא מַשְׁרֶה שְׁכִינָתוֹ מֵעִיד עַל כׇּל הַשְּׁבָטִים וְאֵין מֵעִיד עָלָיו, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״שִׁבְטֵי יָהּ עֵדוּת לְיִשְׂרָאֵל״, אֵימָתַי הָוֵי עֵדוּת לְיִשְׂרָאֵל – בִּזְמַן שֶׁהַשְּׁבָטִים שִׁבְטֵי יָהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The Gemara discusses an idea raised earlier. **Rabbi Avin bar Rav Adda says** that **Rav says:** Concerning **anyone who marries a woman who is not suited for him** to marry, **when the Holy One, Blessed be He, rests His Divine Presence** upon the Jewish people, **He testifies with regard to all the tribes** that they are His people, **but He does not testify with regard to he** who married improperly, **as it is stated: “The tribes of the Lord, as a testimony to Israel”** (Psalms 122:4). **When is it a testimony to Israel? When the tribes are the tribes of the Lord,** but not when their lineage is flawed.


###### Kiddushin 70b:13
[Kiddushin 70b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:13)

אָמַר רַבִּי חָמָא בְּרַבִּי חֲנִינָא: כְּשֶׁהַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא מַשְׁרֶה שְׁכִינָתוֹ – אֵין מַשְׁרֶה אֶלָּא עַל מִשְׁפָּחוֹת מְיוּחָסוֹת שֶׁבְּיִשְׂרָאֵל, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״בָּעֵת הַהִיא נְאֻם ה׳ אֶהְיֶה לֵאלֹהִים לְכֹל מִשְׁפְּחוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל״, ״לְכׇל יִשְׂרָאֵל״ לֹא נֶאֱמַר, אֶלָּא ״לְכֹל מִשְׁפְּחוֹת״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Ḥama, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, says: When the Holy One, Blessed be He, rests His Divine Presence, He rests it only upon families of** unflawed lineage **among Israel, as it is stated: “At that time, says the Lord, will I be the God of all the families of Israel”** (Jeremiah 30:25). **Of all Israel, is not stated, but “of all the families,”** which includes only those of unflawed lineage, the renowned families of Israel.


###### Kiddushin 70b:14
[Kiddushin 70b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:14)

״[וְהֵמָּה] יִהְיוּ לִי לְעָם״, אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר רַב הוּנָא: זוֹ מַעֲלָה יְתֵירָה יֵשׁ בֵּין יִשְׂרָאֵל לְגֵרִים. דְּאִילּוּ בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל כְּתִיב בְּהוּ: ״וְהָיִיתִי לָהֶם לֵאלֹהִים וְהֵמָּה יִהְיוּ לִי לְעָם״, וְאִילּוּ בְּגֵרִים כְּתִיב: ״מִי הוּא זֶה עָרַב אֶת לִבּוֹ לָגֶשֶׁת אֵלַי נְאֻם ה׳. וִהְיִיתֶם לִי לְעָם וְאָנֹכִי אֶהְיֶה לָכֶם לֵאלֹהִים״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The verse from Jeremiah ends with the words **“And they shall be my people.” Rabba bar Rav Huna says: This is a higher standard** that differentiates **between** those born as **Jews and converts, as with regard to** those born as **Jews it is written about them: “And I will be their God, and they shall be My people”** (Ezekiel 37:27), **whereas with regard to converts it is written: “For who is he that has pledged his heart to approach unto Me? says the Lord. And you shall be My people, and I will be your God”** (Jeremiah 30:21–22). This teaches that converts are not drawn close to God, as indicated by the words “And I will be your God,” until they first draw themselves near to God, as indicated by the subsequent phrase “And you shall be my people.”


###### Kiddushin 70b:15
[Kiddushin 70b:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:15)

אָמַר רַבִּי חֶלְבּוֹ: קָשִׁים גֵּרִים לְיִשְׂרָאֵל כְּסַפַּחַת, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְנִלְוָה הַגֵּר עֲלֵיהֶם וְנִסְפְּחוּ עַל בֵּית יַעֲקֹב״ – כְּתִיב הָכָא ״וְנִסְפְּחוּ״, וּכְתִיב הָתָם ״לַשְּׂאֵת וְלַסַּפַּחַת״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Ḥelbo says: Converts are** as **difficult for the Jewish people as a scab.** The proof is **that it is stated: “And the convert shall join himself with them, and they shall cleave [*venispeḥu*] to the house of Jacob”** (Isaiah 14:1). **It is written here “*venispeḥu*,” and it is written there,** among the types of leprosy: **“And for a sore and for a scab [*sappaḥat*]”** (Leviticus 14:56). The use of a term with a similar root indicates that converts are like a scab for the Jewish people.


###### Kiddushin 70b:16
[Kiddushin 70b:16](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/70b:16)

אָמַר רַבִּי חָמָא בַּר חֲנִינָא: כְּשֶׁהַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Ḥama bar Ḥanina says: When the Holy One, Blessed be He,**