## Kiddushin Daf 71b

###### Kiddushin 71b:1
[Kiddushin 71b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:1)

כָּאן – לְהַשִּׂיאוֹ אִשָּׁה, כָּאן – לְהוֹצִיא אִשָּׁה מִיָּדוֹ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Here,** in the final clause, it is referring **to marrying** a woman to **him,** and the *halakha* is that a family with no presumptive status requires investigation before one of them marries. **There,** in the penultimate clause, it is referring **to** the court **removing a woman from him.** The husband is not forced to divorce her unless it has been proven that they may not remain married.


###### Kiddushin 71b:2
[Kiddushin 71b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:2)

אָמַר רַב יוֹסֵף: כֹּל שֶׁסִּיחָתוֹ בְּבָבֶל, מַשִּׂיאִין לוֹ אִשָּׁה. וְהָאִידָּנָא דְּאִיכָּא רַמָּאֵי, חָיְישִׁינַן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Yosef says: Anyone whose speech is Babylonian,** i.e., anyone who speaks the Babylonian language with a Babylonian accent, **is** allowed **to marry a woman** without having his lineage examined. The presumption is that he is Babylonian, and the lineage of Babylonian families is unflawed. The Gemara comments: **But nowadays, when there are swindlers** who may speak with Babylonian accents in order to avoid scrutiny, **we are concerned** even about those who speak like Babylonians.


###### Kiddushin 71b:3
[Kiddushin 71b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:3)

זְעֵירִי הֲוָה קָא מִישְׁתְּמִיט מִינֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן דַּהֲוָה אָמַר לֵיהּ: נְסֵיב בְּרַתִּי. יוֹמָא חַד הֲווֹ קָאָזְלִי בְּאוֹרְחָא, מְטוֹ לְעוּרְקְמָא דְמַיָּא, אַרְכְּבֵיהּ לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אַכַּתְפֵּיהּ וְקָא מְעַבַּר לֵיהּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אוֹרָיְיתַן כְּשֵׁרָה, בְּנָתִין לָא כְּשֵׁרָן? מַאי דַּעְתָּיךְ,

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara relates: The Sage **Ze’eiri,** a Babylonian, **was avoiding Rabbi Yoḥanan,** who was from Eretz Yisrael, **since** the latter kept **saying to him: Marry my daughter. One day,** when **they were walking along the way, they arrived at** a large **puddle of water.** Ze’eiri **lifted Rabbi Yoḥanan upon his shoulders and carried him over** the puddle out of respect. Rabbi Yoḥanan **said to him: Our Torah is fit** and worthy of honor in your eyes, and yet **our daughters are not fit? What is your reason** for not wanting to marry my daughter?


###### Kiddushin 71b:4
[Kiddushin 71b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:4)

אִילֵּימָא מִדִּתְנַן: עֲשָׂרָה יוּחֲסִין עָלוּ מִבָּבֶל כָּהֲנֵי לְוִיֵּי – אַטּוּ כָּהֲנֵי לְוִיֵּי וְיִשְׂרְאֵלֵי כּוּלְּהוּ סְלִיקוּ? כִּי הֵיכִי דְּאִישְׁתְּיוּר מֵהָנֵי אִישְׁתְּיוּר נָמֵי מֵהָנֵי! אִישְׁתְּמִיטְתֵּיהּ הָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר: לֹא עָלָה עֶזְרָא מִבָּבֶל עַד שֶׁעֲשָׂאָהּ כְּסוֹלֶת נְקִיָּיה וְעָלָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rabbi Yoḥanan continued: **If we say a reason** not to marry my daughter is **from that which we learned** in a mishna (69a): There were **ten** categories of **lineage** among the Jews who **ascended from Babylonia: Priests, Levites,** Israelites, as well as many of flawed lineage, and you are concerned about the *mamzerim* among those who live in Eretz Yisrael, **is that to say** that **all of the priests, Levites, and Israelites ascended** to Eretz Yisrael? Certainly, Jews of unflawed lineage remained in Babylonia. **Just as there remained from these** unflawed categories in Babylonia, **there also remained** individuals **from these,** the flawed categories. Therefore, marrying only Babylonians will not alleviate your concern. The Gemara comments: In fact, **this statement of Rabbi Elazar escaped** Rabbi Yoḥanan: **Ezra did not ascend from Babylonia until he made it like fine flour, and** then **he ascended.** Accordingly, the people who remained in Babylonia were all of unflawed lineage.


###### Kiddushin 71b:5
[Kiddushin 71b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:5)

עוּלָּא אִיקְּלַע לְפוּמְבְּדִיתָא לְבֵי רַב יְהוּדָה, חַזְיֵיהּ לְרַב יִצְחָק בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוּדָה דְּגָדֵל וְלָא נָסֵיב. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מַאי טַעְמָא לָא קָא מַנְסֵיב לֵיהּ מָר אִיתְּתָא לִבְרֵיהּ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מִי יָדַעְנָא מֵהֵיכָא אֶנְסְבַיהּ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַטּוּ אֲנַן מִי יָדְעִינַן מֵהֵיכָא קָאָתֵינַן? דִּילְמָא מֵהָנָךְ דִּכְתִיב: ״נָשִׁים בְּצִיּוֹן עִנּוּ בְּתֻלֹת בְּעָרֵי יְהוּדָה״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara relates another incident: **Ulla arrived in Pumbedita to the house of Rav Yehuda. He observed that Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Yehuda, was grown up and was unmarried.** Ulla **said to** Rav Yehuda: **What is the reason** that **the Master does not marry a woman to his son?** Rav Yehuda **said to him: Do I know from where I** can find a woman **to marry** him? I am concerned about flawed lineage. Ulla **said to him: Is that to say that we know where we come from?** Can we be sure that our lineage is unflawed? **Perhaps** we are **from those** about **whom it is written: “They have ravished the women in Zion, the maidens in the cities of Judah”** (Lamentations 5:11). Perhaps we are descended from women ravished by gentiles.


###### Kiddushin 71b:6
[Kiddushin 71b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:6)

וְכִי תֵּימָא נׇכְרִי וְעֶבֶד הַבָּא עַל בַּת יִשְׂרָאֵל הַוָּלָד כָּשֵׁר, וְדִילְמָא מֵהָנָךְ דִּכְתִיב בְּהוּ: ״הַשֹּׁכְבִים עַל מִטּוֹת שֵׁן וּסְרֻחִים עַל עַרְשׂוֹתָם״. וְאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּרַבִּי חֲנִינָא: אֵלּוּ בְּנֵי אָדָם הַמַּשְׁתִּינִים מַיִם בִּפְנֵי מִטּוֹתֵיהֶם עֲרוּמִּים.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And if you would say** that you are not concerned about that possibility, since you maintain that in the case of **a gentile or a slave who engaged in sexual intercourse with a Jewish woman,** the lineage of **the offspring is unflawed, perhaps** we come **from those about whom it is written: “That lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches”** (Amos 6:4), **and Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, says** in explanation of this verse: **These are people who urinate naked before their couches.**


###### Kiddushin 71b:7
[Kiddushin 71b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:7)

וּמְגַדֵּף בַּהּ רַבִּי אֲבָהוּ: אִי הָכִי הַיְינוּ דִּכְתִיב: ״לָכֵן עַתָּה יִגְלוּ בְּרֹאשׁ גֹּלִים״ – מִשּׁוּם דְּמַשְׁתִּינִים מַיִם בִּפְנֵי מִטּוֹתֵיהֶם עֲרוּמִּים, ״יִגְלוּ בְּרֹאשׁ גּוֹלִים״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And Rabbi Abbahu ridiculed this** interpretation and said: **If so,** if this was their sin, **is this what is written: “Therefore now shall they go captive at the head of them that go captive”** (Amos 6:7)? Could it be that **because they urinated naked before their couches** that **they go captive at the head of them that go captive?** That act is admittedly distasteful, but it is not so severe a transgression to warrant such a punishment.


###### Kiddushin 71b:8
[Kiddushin 71b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:8)

אֶלָּא אָמַר רַבִּי אֲבָהוּ: אֵלּוּ בְּנֵי אָדָם שֶׁאוֹכְלִין וְשׁוֹתִין זֶה עִם זֶה, וּמַדְבִּיקִין מִטּוֹתֵיהֶם זוֹ בָּזוֹ, וּמַחֲלִיפִין נְשׁוֹתֵיהֶם זֶה לָזֶה, וּמַסְרִיחִים עַרְסוֹתָם בְּשִׁכְבַת זֶרַע שֶׁאֵינָהּ שֶׁלָּהֶם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather, Rabbi Abbahu says: These are people who eat and drink together, and attach their beds together, and exchange their wives with each other, and befoul their couches with semen that is not theirs.** The Jewish people include the descendants of such people, who are full-fledged *mamzerim*.


###### Kiddushin 71b:9
[Kiddushin 71b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:9)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הֵיכִי נַעֲבֵיד? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: זִיל בָּתַר שְׁתִיקוּתָא, כִּי הַאי דְּבָדְקִי בְּנֵי מַעְרְבָא: כִּי מִינְּצוּ בֵּי תְרֵי בַּהֲדֵי הֲדָדֵי חָזוּ הֵי מִנַּיְיהוּ דְּקָדֵים וְשָׁתֵיק – אָמְרִי: הַאי מְיוּחָס טְפֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Yehuda said to** Ulla: If so, **what shall we do?** How can we clarify which families are of unflawed lineage? Ulla **said to him: Go after the silence, like the way the people of the West,** Eretz Yisrael, **examine: When two** people **quarrel with each other, they observe which of them becomes silent first.** Then **they say: This** silent party **is of finer lineage.**


###### Kiddushin 71b:10
[Kiddushin 71b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:10)

אָמַר רַב: שְׁתִיקוּתֵיהּ דְּבָבֶל – הַיְינוּ יִחוּסָא. אִינִי? וְהָא אִיקְּלַע רַב לְבֵי בַּר שָׁפֵי חַלָּא וּבְדַק בְּהוּ, מַאי לָאו בְּיַחֲסוּתָא? לָא, בִּשְׁתִיקוּתָא. הָכִי קָאָמַר לְהוּ: בְּדוּקוּ אִי שָׁתְקִי אִי לָא שָׁתְקִי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav says: The silence of Babylonia is its lineage.** In other words, this is an effective method of examining a person’s lineage in Babylonia as well. The Gemara asks: **Is that so? But Rav arrived at the house of the son of a vinegar strainer and examined them. What, is it not** that he conducted an examination **into** their **lineage?** The Gemara answers: **No,** he conducted an examination **into their silence. This is** what Rav **said to** those conducting the examination: **Examine whether they become silent** when they quarrel **or** whether **they do not become silent.**


###### Kiddushin 71b:11
[Kiddushin 71b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:11)

אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר רַב: אִם רָאִיתָ שְׁנֵי בְּנֵי אָדָם שֶׁמִּתְגָּרִים זֶה בָּזֶה – שֶׁמֶץ פְּסוּל יֵשׁ בְּאֶחָד מֵהֶן, וְאֵין מַנִּיחִין אוֹתוֹ לִידַּבֵּק אֶחָד בַּחֲבֵירוֹ. אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי: אִם רָאִיתָ שְׁתֵּי מִשְׁפָּחוֹת הַמִּתְגָּרוֹת זוֹ בָּזוֹ – שֶׁמֶץ פְּסוּל יֵשׁ בְּאַחַת מֵהֶן, וְאֵין מַנִּיחִין אוֹתָהּ לִידַּבֵּק בַּחֲבֶרְתָּהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Yehuda says** that **Rav says: If you see two people feuding with each other, there is a trace of unfitness in one of them.** In other words, there are grounds to suspect that the lineage of one of them is flawed. Consequently, that one **is prevented** by Heaven **from joining the other** through marriage, and that leads them to feud with each other. **Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi says: If you see two families feuding with each other, there is a trace of unfitness in one of them, and** that family **is prevented** by Heaven **from joining the other.**


###### Kiddushin 71b:12
[Kiddushin 71b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:12)

אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא סָבָא מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַב: בָּבֶל – בְּרִיאָה. מֵישׁוֹן – מֵיתָה. מָדַי – חוֹלָה. עֵילָם – גּוֹסֶסֶת. וּמָה בֵּין חוֹלִין לְגוֹסְסִין? רוֹב חוֹלִין לְחַיִּים, רוֹב גּוֹסְסִים לְמִיתָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Pappa the Elder says in the name of Rav: Babylonia** is **healthy** with regard to lineage and clear of suspicion. **Mishon** is **dead,** meaning that all its inhabitants have flawed lineage. **Media** is **sick,** and **Eilam** is **moribund.** The Gemara clarifies: **And what** is the difference **between sick and moribund? Most sick** people recover **to** a healthy **life,** whereas **most** of those who are **moribund** are destined **for death.** Likewise, the majority of the residents of Media had unflawed lineage, while the majority of those living in Eilam had flawed lineage.


###### Kiddushin 71b:13
[Kiddushin 71b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:13)

עַד הֵיכָן הִיא בָּבֶל? רַב אָמַר: עַד נָהָר עֲזָק, וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: עַד נְהַר יוּאָנִי. לְעֵיל בְּדִיגְלַת עַד הֵיכָא? רַב אָמַר: עַד בַּגְדָּא וְאַוְונָא. וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: עַד מוּשְׁכְּנֵי. וְלֹא מוּשְׁכְּנֵי בַּכְּלָל? וְהָאָמַר רַבִּי חִיָּיא בַּר אַבָּא אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: מוּשְׁכְּנֵי הֲרֵי הִיא כַּגּוֹלָה לְיוּחֲסִין! אֶלָּא: עַד מוּשְׁכְּנֵי, וּמוּשְׁכְּנֵי בַּכְּלָל.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
After having determined that those from Babylonia are presumed to have unflawed lineage, the Gemara clarifies what the borders of Babylonia are with regard to this issue. **Until where does** the width of **Babylonia** extend? **Rav said: Until the River Azak,** which empties into the Euphrates. **And Shmuel said: Until the River Yo’ani,** which also empties into the Euphrates. The Gemara asks: **Until where does** the border extend **upward,** meaning northward, **on the Tigris? Rav said: Until** the places called **Bagda and Avna. And Shmuel said: Until Mushekanei.** The Gemara asks: **But** according to Shmuel, **isn’t Mushekanei included** in Babylonia? **But didn’t Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba say** that **Shmuel says: Mushekanei is like the exile,** meaning it is like Pumbedita in central Babylonia, **with regard to lineage? Rather,** Shmuel meant: **Until and including Mushekanei.**


###### Kiddushin 71b:14
[Kiddushin 71b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:14)

לְתַחְתִּית בְּדִיגְלַת עַד הֵיכָא? אָמַר רַב שְׁמוּאֵל: עַד אַפַּמֵיָיא תַּתָּאָה. תַּרְתֵּי אַפַּמֵיָיא הָוְיָין: חֲדָא עִילִּיתָא וַחֲדָא תַּתַּיְיתָא, חֲדָא כְּשֵׁירָה וַחֲדָא פְּסוּלָה, וּבֵין חֲדָא לַחֲדָא פַּרְסָה, וְקָא קָפְדִי אַהֲדָדֵי וַאֲפִילּוּ נוּרָא לָא מוֹשְׁלִי אַהֲדָדֵי. וְסִימָנָיךְ דִּפְסוּלְתָּא הָא דְּמִישְׁתַּעֲיָא מֵישָׁנִית.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **How far does** the border extend **downward,** meaning southward, **on the Tigris? Rav Shmuel said: Until** the city of **Lower Appamya.** The Gemara comments: **There are two** cities called **Appamya, the upper one and the lower one.** In terms of the lineage of their residents, **one is unflawed and the other is flawed, and they are separated by** a distance of **a parasang [*parsa*]. And they are particular with regard to one another.** The residents of the two cities avoid each other to the extent that **they do not even loan each other fire,** to prevent them from developing a closeness with each other. **And your mnemonic** to remember which is which is that **the unfit one** is **that** one **that speaks the Mishon dialect.** As stated above, Mishon is considered dead with regard to lineage.


###### Kiddushin 71b:15
[Kiddushin 71b:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:15)

לְעֵיל בִּפְרָת עַד הֵיכָא? רַב אָמַר: עַד אַקְרָא דְתוּלְבַּקְנֵי. וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: עַד גִּישְׁרָא דְּבֵי פְרָת. וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: עַד מַעַבַּרְתָּ[א] דְגִיזְמָא. לָיֵיט אַבָּיֵי וְאִיתֵּימָא רַב יוֹסֵף אַדְּרַב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara further clarifies: **How far does** the border extend **upward,** meaning northward, **on the Euphrates? Rav said: Until the fortress** of **Tulbaknei. And Shmuel said: Until the bridge over the Euphrates. And Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Until the crossing at Gizma.** The Gemara relates: **Abaye would curse, and some say** it was **Rav Yosef** that would curse, **one** who ruled in accordance with the opinion **of Rav,** as he held that Rav extended the border too far north.


###### Kiddushin 71b:16
[Kiddushin 71b:16](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Kiddushin/r/71b:16)

אַדְּרַב לָיֵיט, אַדִּשְׁמוּאֵל לָא לָיֵיט? אֶלָּא לָיֵיט אַדְּרַב, וְכׇל שֶׁכֵּן אַדִּשְׁמוּאֵל. וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: לְעוֹלָם אַדְּרַב לָיֵיט, אַדִּשְׁמוּאֵל לָא לָיֵיט, וְגִישְׁרָא דְּבֵי פְרָת לְתַתַּאיה הֲוָה קָאֵי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara is puzzled by this statement: Why did he **curse one** who ruled in accordance with the opinion **of Rav,** but he **did not curse one** who ruled in accordance with the opinion **of Shmuel?** But the bridge over the Euphrates is further north than the fortress of Tulbaknei. **Rather,** he **would curse one** who ruled in accordance with the opinion **of Rav, and all the more so one** who ruled in accordance with the opinion **of Shmuel. And if you wish, say: In fact, he cursed one** who ruled in accordance with the opinion **of Rav,** but **he did not curse one** who ruled in accordance with the opinion **of Shmuel, and the bridge over the Euphrates** actually **stood lower down,** i.e., farther south. In their times the bridge was to the south of Tulbaknei, and Abaye agreed that it was in Babylonia.