## Menachot Daf 65b

###### Menachot 65b:1
[Menachot 65b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:1)

וְאִם מֹשֶׁה רַבֵּינוּ אוֹהֵב יִשְׂרָאֵל הָיָה, לָמָּה אִיחֲרָן בְּמִדְבָּר אַרְבָּעִים שָׁנָה? אָמַר לוֹ: רַבִּי, בְּכָךְ אַתָּה פּוֹטְרֵנִי? אָמַר לוֹ: שׁוֹטֶה! וְלֹא תְּהֵא תּוֹרָה שְׁלֵמָה שֶׁלָּנוּ כְּשִׂיחָה בְּטֵילָה שֶׁלָּכֶם!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And if Moses, our teacher, was a lover of the Jewish people, why did he delay them in the wilderness forty years?** The elderly man **said to him: My teacher, you dismiss me with this** retort? Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Zakkai **said to him: Fool! And will our perfect Torah not be** as worthy **as your frivolous speech?** Your claim can easily be refuted.


###### Menachot 65b:2
[Menachot 65b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:2)

כָּתוּב אֶחָד אוֹמֵר: ״תִּסְפְּרוּ חֲמִשִּׁים יוֹם״, וְכָתוּב אֶחָד אוֹמֵר: ״שֶׁבַע שַׁבָּתוֹת תְּמִימֹת תִּהְיֶינָה״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rabbi Yoḥanan ben Zakkai cites a proof that *Shavuot* does not need to occur specifically on a Sunday. **One verse states:** “Even to the morrow after the seventh week **you shall number fifty days;** and you shall present a new meal offering to the Lord” (Leviticus 23:16), **and one verse,** the preceding one, apparently contradicts this when it **states:** “And you shall count for you from the morrow after the day of rest, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the waving; **seven weeks shall there be complete.”** Is the festival of *Shavuot* seven full weeks after Passover, i.e., counting from Sunday through Shabbat seven times; or is it fifty days after Passover?


###### Menachot 65b:3
[Menachot 65b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:3)

הָא כֵּיצַד? כָּאן – בְּיוֹם טוֹב שֶׁחָל לִהְיוֹת בְּשַׁבָּת, כָּאן – בְּיוֹם טוֹב שֶׁחָל לִהְיוֹת בְּאֶמְצַע שַׁבָּת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara explains: **How so,** i.e., how can one reconcile these two verses? **Here,** the verse that mentions seven complete weeks, is referring to a year **when the festival** of Passover **occurs on Shabbat.** In such a year, the fifty-day period between Passover and *Shavuot* contains seven complete weeks, from Sunday through Shabbat. **There,** the verse that defines the period as fifty days, is referring to a year **when the festival** of Passover **occurs in the middle of the week.**


###### Menachot 65b:4
[Menachot 65b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:4)

(שֶׁל רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר: סוֹפֵר, רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: מוֹנֶה, רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל: מְעַמֵּר, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה: לְמַטָּה – סִימָן.)

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara presents **a mnemonic** for several other proofs in refutation of the claim of the Boethusians: That **of Rabbi Eliezer: Number; Rabbi Yehoshua: Count; Rabbi Yishmael: From the *omer*; Rabbi Yehuda: Below.**


###### Menachot 65b:5
[Menachot 65b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:5)

רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר: אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ, הֲרֵי הוּא אוֹמֵר: ״תִּסְפׇּר לָךְ״, סְפִירָה תְּלוּיָה בְּבֵית דִּין, שֶׁהֵם יוֹדְעִים לְחַדֵּשׁ. ״מִמָּחֳרַת הַשַּׁבָּת״ – מָחֳרַת יוֹם טוֹב, יָצָאת שַׁבַּת בְּרֵאשִׁית שֶׁסְּפִירָתָהּ בְּכׇל אָדָם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Eliezer says:** The previous proof **is not necessary, as** the verse **states:** “Seven weeks **you shall number for you;** from the time the sickle is first put to the standing grain you shall begin to number seven weeks” (Deuteronomy 16:9). The term “for you” indicates that the **counting** of the weeks **is dependent upon** the decision of the **court, as they know** how to **calculate the new** months, upon which the date of the Festival depends. Therefore, when the verse states: **“The morrow after the day of rest [*hashabbat*]”** (Leviticus 23:16), it means: **The morrow after the Festival,** as the determination of Festivals is by the court. This serves to **exclude** the interpretation that the counting starts after the **Shabbat of Creation,** i.e., a regular weekly Shabbat, **whose counting** can be performed **by every person,** not exclusively by the court.


###### Menachot 65b:6
[Menachot 65b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:6)

רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אוֹמֵר: אָמְרָה תּוֹרָה מְנֵה יָמִים וְקַדֵּשׁ חֹדֶשׁ, מְנֵה יָמִים וְקַדֵּשׁ עֲצֶרֶת. מָה חֹדֶשׁ סָמוּךְ לְבִיאָתוֹ נִיכָּר, אַף עֲצֶרֶת סָמוּךְ לְבִיאָתָהּ נִיכֶּרֶת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Citing a different proof, **Rabbi Yehoshua says:** The **Torah said** to **count days,** as it is stated: “A month of days” (Numbers 11:20), **and** then **sanctify** the **month** with offerings. And the Torah also said to **count days** from Passover **and** then **sanctify the festival of *Shavuot*** with offerings, as it is stated: “You shall count fifty days” (Leviticus 23:16). From this comparison, one can learn that **just as** the start of the counting toward the new **month is known** even **before it comes,** as one begins counting toward the following new month on the first day of a month, **so too** the start of the counting toward **the festival of *Shavuot* is known** even **before it comes,** as one begins counting toward *Shavuot* on a fixed day of the month.


###### Menachot 65b:7
[Menachot 65b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:7)

וְאִם תֹּאמַר: עֲצֶרֶת לְעוֹלָם אַחַר הַשַּׁבָּת, הֵיאַךְ תְּהֵא נִיכֶּרֶת מִשֶּׁלְּפָנֶיהָ?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara elaborates: **And if you say** that the festival of ***Shavuot* always** occurs the **day after Shabbat, how** is the counting toward Shavuot **known** based on **what came before it?** If the occurrence of *Shavuot* depends upon a Shabbat, there would be no specific date after Passover upon which the counting occurs yearly.


###### Menachot 65b:8
[Menachot 65b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:8)

רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל אוֹמֵר: אָמְרָה תּוֹרָה הָבֵא עוֹמֶר בַּפֶּסַח, וּשְׁתֵּי הַלֶּחֶם בָּעֲצֶרֶת. מָה לְהַלָּן – רֶגֶל וּתְחִלַּת רֶגֶל, אַף כָּאן – רֶגֶל וּתְחִלַּת רֶגֶל.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Yishmael says** there is another refutation of the Boethusian interpretation. **The Torah said: Bring** the ***omer*** offering on the festival **on Passover and the two loaves on *Shavuot*. Just as there,** with regard to the offering on the **festival** of *Shavuot*, the two loaves are brought at **the beginning of the Festival,** as it lasts only one day, **so too here,** with regard to the **festival** of Passover, the *omer* must be brought at **the beginning of the Festival.** If the *omer* were to always be brought on a Sunday, this might occur at the end of the festival of Passover. For example, if Passover started on a Monday, the *omer* would be brought only on the next Sunday, at the end of the Festival.


###### Menachot 65b:9
[Menachot 65b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:9)

רַבִּי יְהוּדָה בֶּן בְּתִירָא אוֹמֵר: נֶאֱמַר ״שַׁבָּת״ לְמַעְלָה, וְנֶאֱמַר ״שַׁבָּת״ לְמַטָּה. מָה לְהַלָּן – רֶגֶל, וּתְחִלַּת רֶגֶל סָמוּךְ לָהּ, אַף כָּאן – רֶגֶל, וּתְחִלַּת רֶגֶל סָמוּךְ לָהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira says** there is yet another refutation. It is **stated “*shabbat*” above** (Leviticus 23:15), with regard to starting the counting of the *omer*, **and** it is also **stated “*shabbat*” below** (Leviticus 23:16), with regard to the commencement of the festival of *Shavuot*. **Just as** there, with regard to the **festival** of *Shavuot*, it is stated: “Even until the morrow after the seventh week [*hashabbat*] you shall number fifty days,” **and** the word *shabbat* is referring to the **beginning of the Festival** and it immediately **follows** the end of the seventh week; **so too here,** with regard to the bringing of the *omer*, the word *shabbat* means **Festival,** so that the *omer* offering immediately **follows the beginning of the Festival,** on the second day of Passover. According to the Boethusians, the commencement of the counting could start well after the beginning of Passover. For example, if Passover occurs on a Sunday, the counting of the *omer* would start only the following Sunday.


###### Menachot 65b:10
[Menachot 65b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:10)

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: ״וּסְפַרְתֶּם לָכֶם״, שֶׁתְּהֵא סְפִירָה לְכׇל אֶחָד וְאֶחָד.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**The Sages taught** in a *baraita*: The verse states: “And you shall count for you from the morrow after the day of rest [*hashabbat*], from the day that you brought the sheaf of the waving; seven weeks there shall be complete” (Leviticus 23:15). The phrase: **“And you shall count for you,”** teaches **that** the mitzva of counting is not a communal obligation. Rather, **there should be a counting by each and every** person.


###### Menachot 65b:11
[Menachot 65b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:11)

״מִמָּחֳרַת הַשַּׁבָּת״ – מִמָּחֳרַת יוֹם טוֹב, אוֹ אֵינוֹ אֶלָּא לְמָחֳרַת שַׁבַּת בְּרֵאשִׁית? רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בַּר יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: הֲרֵי הוּא אוֹמֵר ״תִּסְפְּרוּ חֲמִשִּׁים יוֹם״, כׇּל סְפִירוֹת שֶׁאַתָּה סוֹפֵר לֹא יְהוּ אֶלָּא חֲמִשִּׁים יוֹם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The *baraita* continues: **From the morrow after the day of rest [*hashabbat*],** this means **from the morrow after the festival** of Passover. **Or** perhaps this is **not** the meaning of the verse, but **rather** it means **after the Shabbat of Creation,** i.e., Sunday. **Rabbi Yosei bar Yehuda says:** This cannot be correct, **as** the verse **states:** “Even until the morrow after the seventh week **you shall number fifty days”** (Leviticus 23:16). This teaches that **all the countings that you count shall be only fifty days.**


###### Menachot 65b:12
[Menachot 65b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:12)

וְאִם תֹּאמַר מִמָּחֳרַת שַׁבַּת בְּרֵאשִׁית, פְּעָמִים שֶׁאַתָּה מוֹצֵא חֲמִשִּׁים וְאֶחָד, וּפְעָמִים שֶׁאַתָּה מוֹצֵא חֲמִשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם, חֲמִשִּׁים וּשְׁלֹשָׁה, חֲמִשִּׁים וְאַרְבָּעָה, חֲמִשִּׁים וַחֲמִשָּׁה, חֲמִשִּׁים וְשִׁשָּׁה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rabbi Yosei bar Yehuda elaborates: **And if you say** that the clause: **“From the morrow after** the day of rest [*hashabbat*],” is referring to the **Shabbat of Creation, sometimes you will find** a count of **fifty-one** days from the first day of Passover, which is the date that the count began the previous year, until *Shavuot*; **and sometimes you will find fifty-two,** or **fifty-three,** or **fifty-four,** or **fifty-five,** or **fifty-six.** For example, in one year, Passover occurs on Shabbat, and the counting of the *omer* would start on Sunday, the sixteenth of Nisan, and *Shavuot* would occur fifty days later. Another year, Passover occurs on a Friday, and the counting starts on Sunday, then the date that *Shavuot* will occur this year is fifty-one days from the sixteenth of Nisan. If Passover occurs on a Thursday, and the counting begins on the following Sunday, *Shavuot* will occur fifty-two days from the sixteenth of Nisan.


###### Menachot 65b:13
[Menachot 65b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/65b:13)

רַבִּי יְהוּדָה בֶּן בְּתִירָא אוֹמֵר: אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ,

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira says:** That proof **is not necessary,**