## Menachot Daf 8b

###### Menachot 8b:1
[Menachot 8b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:1)

לֹא זוֹ קְדוֹשָׁה בְּלֹא זוֹ וְלֹא זוֹ קְדוֹשָׁה בְּלֹא זוֹ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Neither** is **this** substance **sanctified without that, nor is that sanctified without this.** Rather, any meal offering that requires oil and frankincense is sanctified by a service vessel only when the flour, oil, and frankincense are all placed in the same vessel at the same time.


###### Menachot 8b:2
[Menachot 8b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:2)

וּלְרַבִּי חֲנִינָא, עִשָּׂרוֹן לָמָּה נִמְשַׁח? (וַהֲלֹא אֵינוֹ עָשׂוּי אֶלָּא לִמְדִידַת קֶמַח בִּלְבַד, וְהַקֶּמַח אֵינוֹ קָדוֹשׁ בְּלֹא שֶׁמֶן!) לְמִנְחַת חוֹטֵא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And according to** the opinion of **Rabbi Ḥanina, for what** purpose was the vessel that measured **a tenth** of an ephah **anointed,** making it possible for it to sanctify items placed inside it? This vessel **was fashioned only for measuring flour, and** according to Rabbi Ḥanina **the flour is not sanctified without oil.** What then does this vessel sanctify? The Gemara answers: The vessel was anointed **for** the purpose of sanctifying the **meal offering of a sinner,** which contains neither oil nor frankincense.


###### Menachot 8b:3
[Menachot 8b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:3)

וְלוֹג, לָמָּה נִמְשַׁח? לְלוֹג שֶׁל מְצוֹרָע.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara further asks: **And for what** purpose was the vessel that measured one ***log*** of oil **anointed?** After all, according to Rabbi Ḥanina oil for a meal offering cannot be sanctified by itself. The Gemara explains: It was anointed **for** the purpose of sanctifying the ***log*** of oil **of a leper,** which is not brought as part of a meal offering. This oil is sanctified without flour or frankincense.


###### Menachot 8b:4
[Menachot 8b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:4)

וְאַף שְׁמוּאֵל סָבַר לַהּ לְהָא דְּרַב, דִּתְנַן: כְּלֵי הַלַּח מְקַדְּשִׁין אֶת הַלַּח, וּמִדּוֹת הַיָּבֵשׁ מְקַדְּשִׁין אֶת הַיָּבֵשׁ, וְאֵין כְּלֵי הַלַּח מְקַדְּשִׁין אֶת הַיָּבֵשׁ, וְלֹא מִדּוֹת הַיָּבֵשׁ מְקַדְּשִׁין אֶת הַלַּח.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara notes: **And Shmuel also holds in accordance with this** statement **of Rav,** that a service vessel sanctifies the flour of a meal offering even without its oil, **as we learned** in a mishna (*Zevaḥim* 88a): **The vessels** used for **liquids sanctify** only **the liquids, and the** vessels that serve as **dry measures sanctify** only **the dry** goods. **But the vessels** used for **liquids do not sanctify the dry** goods, **and the** vessels that serve as **dry measures do not sanctify the liquids.**


###### Menachot 8b:5
[Menachot 8b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:5)

וְאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא מִדּוֹת, אֲבָל מִזְרָקוֹת (שֶׁל דָּם) מְקַדְּשׁוֹת אֶת הַיָּבֵשׁ, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״שְׁנֵיהֶם מְלֵאִים סֹלֶת בְּלוּלָה בַשֶּׁמֶן לְמִנְחָה״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And Shmuel says** with regard to this mishna: **They taught** that vessels used for liquids do not sanctify dry goods **only** with regard to vessels used as **measures. But bowls** that are used for collecting and tossing the **blood** of offerings **sanctify the dry goods** as well, **as it is stated** with regard to the offerings of the princes brought during the inauguration of the Tabernacle: **“Both of them full of fine flour mixed with oil for a meal offering”** (Numbers 7:13), which indicates that the bowl sanctifies meal offerings, which are dry.


###### Menachot 8b:6
[Menachot 8b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:6)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב אַחָא מִדִּפְתִּי לְרָבִינָא: מִנְחָה לַחָה הִיא! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לֹא נִצְרְכָא אֶלָּא לַיָּבֵשׁ שֶׁבָּהּ, (דְּהַיְינוּ לְבוֹנָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara continues its proof: And **Rav Aḥa of Difti said to Ravina,** with regard to this derivation of Shmuel: But the **meal offering** of the verse **is** also considered **a liquid,** as it is mingled with oil. How then can one derive from it the *halakha* with regard to items that are entirely dry? Ravina **said to him:** The verse cited by Shmuel **is necessary only to** teach that **the dry** part **of** a meal offering, **that is,** the **frankincense,** which invariably does not come into contact with the oil, is sanctified by the bowls as well.


###### Menachot 8b:7
[Menachot 8b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:7)

וְאִי סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ קָסָבַר שְׁמוּאֵל: אֵין מִנְחָה קְדוֹשָׁה עַד שֶׁיְּהוּ כּוּלָּן, יָבֵשׁ שֶׁבָּהּ הֵיכִי מַשְׁכַּחַתְּ לַהּ? וַהֲלֹא כּוּלָּן לַחִים הֵן מִפְּנֵי הַשֶּׁמֶן! אֶלָּא שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ קָסָבַר שְׁמוּאֵל: הַאי בְּלֹא הַאי.)

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara concludes its proof with regard to Shmuel’s opinion: **And if it enters your mind** that **Shmuel holds** that **a meal offering is not sanctified** by a service vessel **until all** of its components **are** together in the vessel, then **how can you find** a case where the **dry** parts **of** a meal offering are by themselves? **Is it not** correct that when meal offerings are sanctified, **all of them are liquids, due to the oil** that is mixed with them? **Rather, conclude from** here that **Shmuel holds** that **this** substance may be sanctified **without that** one.


###### Menachot 8b:8
[Menachot 8b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:8)

וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: מִנְחָה, לְגַבֵּי דָּם – כְּיָבֵשׁ דָּמְיָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And if you wish, say** instead in answer to Rav Aḥa of Difti’s question: **A meal offering,** even when it is mixed with oil, is, **relative to blood, considered as a dry** item. Accordingly, one may derive from the verse that the bowls sanctify dry items, and just as a bowl sanctifies a meal offering that contains oil, as it is considered dry in comparison to blood, so too, it sanctifies a meal offering that is entirely dry, i.e., that contains no oil, as claimed by Rav.


###### Menachot 8b:9
[Menachot 8b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:9)

גּוּפָא, אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר: מִנְחָה שֶׁקְּמָצָהּ בַּהֵיכָל – כְּשֵׁרָה, שֶׁכֵּן מָצִינוּ בְּסִילּוּק בָּזִיכִין.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The Gemara discusses **the** matter **itself. Rabbi Elazar says: A meal offering** from **which** the priest **removed a handful** while **inside the Sanctuary** is **valid,** despite the fact that the handful should be removed in the Temple courtyard; the reason is **that we find** a similar case in the Sanctuary, **with regard to the removal of** the **bowls** of frankincense from the Table of the shewbread. Just as the bowls permit the shewbread for consumption, so too, the handful permits the remainder of the meal offering for consumption.


###### Menachot 8b:10
[Menachot 8b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:10)

מֵתִיב רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה: ״וְקָמַץ מִשָּׁם״ – מִמָּקוֹם שֶׁרַגְלֵי הַזָּר עוֹמְדוֹת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Yirmeya raises an objection** to this opinion from a *baraita* discussing the verse: “And he shall bring it to Aaron’s sons the priests; **and he shall remove from there** his handful” (Leviticus 2:2). The verse indicates that the removal of a handful from a meal offering may be performed **from the place where the feet of the non-priest** may **stand,** i.e., anywhere within the Temple courtyard.


###### Menachot 8b:11
[Menachot 8b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:11)

בֶּן בְּתִירָא אוֹמֵר: מִנַּיִן שֶׁאִם קָמַץ בִּשְׂמֹאל, שֶׁיַּחֲזִיר וְיִקְמוֹץ בְּיָמִין? תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר: ״וְקָמַץ מִשָּׁם״ – מִמָּקוֹם שֶׁקָּמַץ כְּבָר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The *baraita* continues: **Ben Beteira,** who holds that a handful is not disqualified when removed with the left hand, **says** that the verse should be interpreted as follows: **From where** is it derived **that if** one **removed a handful with** his **left** hand, **that he must return** the handful to the vessel that contains the meal offering **and** again **remove the handful with** his **right** hand? **The verse states: “And he shall remove from there.”** This indicates that the handful is removed **from the place where he already removed** it, i.e., the handful is returned to the meal offering and thereupon removed from the same meal offering, this time with his right hand. It is clear from the statement of the first *tanna* that the handful of a meal offering may be removed only in the place where the feet of a non-priest may stand, but not in the Sanctuary.


###### Menachot 8b:12
[Menachot 8b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:12)

אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי: הוּא מוֹתֵיב לַהּ וְהוּא מְפָרֵק לַהּ. אִיכָּא דְאָמְרִי: אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי יַעֲקֹב לְרַבִּי יִרְמְיָה בַּר תַּחְלִיפָא, אַסְבְּרַהּ לָךְ – לֹא נִצְרְכָא אֶלָּא לְהַכְשִׁיר אֶת כׇּל עֲזָרָה כּוּלָּהּ, שֶׁלֹּא תֹּאמַר: הוֹאִיל וְעוֹלָה קׇדְשֵׁי קָדָשִׁים, וּמִנְחָה קׇדְשֵׁי קָדָשִׁים, מָה עוֹלָה טְעוּנָה צָפוֹן – אַף מִנְחָה טְעוּנָה צָפוֹן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Some say** that Rabbi Yirmeya **raises the objection and he resolves it** as well. And **some say** that **Rabbi Ya’akov said to Rabbi Yirmeya bar Taḥlifa: I will explain to you** the resolution of this objection: The verse **is necessary only to permit the entire** Temple **courtyard** for removing the handful there, not to prohibit the removal of a handful inside the Sanctuary. The reason is **that you should not say: Since a burnt offering** is **an offering of the most sacred order, and a meal offering** is likewise **an offering of the most sacred order,** then **just as a burnt offering requires** that its slaughter be performed in the **northern** part of the Temple courtyard, **so too, a meal offering requires** that the removal of its handful be in the **northern** part.


###### Menachot 8b:13
[Menachot 8b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:13)

מָה לְעוֹלָה, שֶׁכֵּן כָּלִיל, מֵחַטָּאת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara raises a difficulty with regard to this comparison: **What** is notable **about a burnt offering?** It is notable **in that** it is more sacred, as it is **consumed** in its entirety upon the altar. The Gemara responds: The same comparison may be drawn **from a sin offering,** which is also an offering of the most sacred order and is not sacrificed in its entirety upon the altar, and yet it must be slaughtered in the northern part of the Temple courtyard.


###### Menachot 8b:14
[Menachot 8b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:14)

מָה לְחַטָּאת, שֶׁכֵּן מְכַפֶּרֶת עַל חַיָּיבֵי כָרֵיתוֹת, מֵאָשָׁם.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara raises a difficulty with regard to this comparison as well: **What** is notable **about a sin offering?** It is notable **in that** the *halakhot* of a sin offering are more stringent, as its sacrifice **atones for** those sins whose transgression causes one to be **liable to** receive ***karet*.** The Gemara responds: The comparison may be drawn **from a guilt offering,** as it too is an offering of the most sacred order, it is not sacrificed in its entirety upon the altar, it does not atone for such sins, and yet it must be slaughtered in the northern part of the Temple courtyard.


###### Menachot 8b:15
[Menachot 8b:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:15)

מָה לְאָשָׁם, שֶׁכֵּן מִינֵי דָמִים! מִכּוּלְּהוּ נָמֵי, שֶׁכֵּן מִינֵי דָמִים!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara rejects this suggestion as well: **What** is notable **about a guilt offering?** It is notable **in that** a guilt offering has a loftier status, as it is one of **the types of** offerings whose atonement is achieved through their **blood,** i.e., it is an animal offering. The Gemara adds: Once this claim has been accepted, **from all of them as well,** i.e., from a burnt offering and sin offering, one cannot draw a comparison to a meal offering either, **as** they are all of **the types of** offerings whose atonement is achieved through their **blood.**


###### Menachot 8b:16
[Menachot 8b:16](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:16)

אֶלָּא אִיצְטְרִיךְ, סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ אָמֵינָא, הוֹאִיל וּכְתִיב: ״וְהִקְרִיבָהּ אֶל הַכֹּהֵן וְהִגִּישָׁהּ אֶל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ וְקָמַץ״, מָה הַגָּשָׁה בְּקֶרֶן דְּרוֹמִית מַעֲרָבִית, אַף קְמִיצָה נָמֵי בְּקֶרֶן דְּרוֹמִית מַעֲרָבִית, קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** the verse **was necessary** in order to permit the removal of a handful anywhere in the Temple courtyard because it might **enter your mind to say** that **since it is written: “And it shall be presented to the priest, and he shall bring it to the altar”** (Leviticus 2:8), and it states: **“And he shall remove** from there his handful” (Leviticus 2:2), one could claim: **Just as** the **bringing** of the meal offering is **in the southwestern corner** of the altar, **so too,** the **removal of the handful** must **also** be performed **in the southwestern corner.** Therefore, the verse **teaches us** that the removal of the handful may be performed anywhere in the Temple courtyard, but this does not serve to exclude the Sanctuary.


###### Menachot 8b:17
[Menachot 8b:17](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:17)

גּוּפָא, אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: שְׁלָמִים שֶׁשְּׁחָטָן בַּהֵיכָל – כְּשֵׁרִין, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וּשְׁחָטוֹ פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד״, וְלֹא יְהֵא טָפֵל חָמוּר מִן הָעִיקָּר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The Gemara discusses **the** matter **itself. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Peace offerings that** were **slaughtered in the Sanctuary are valid, as it is stated: “And slaughter it at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting”** (Leviticus 3:2), i.e., in the courtyard. **And** it is logical that the *halakha* with regard to the **minor** area, i.e., the courtyard, **should not be more stringent than** the *halakha* with regard to **the major** one, the Tent of Meeting or the Sanctuary.


###### Menachot 8b:18
[Menachot 8b:18](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Menachot/r/8b:18)

מֵיתִיבִי: רַבִּי יְהוּדָה בֶּן בְּתִירָא אוֹמֵר, מִנַּיִן שֶׁאִם הִקִּיפוּ גּוֹיִם אֶת הָעֲזָרָה, שֶׁהַכֹּהֲנִים נִכְנָסִין לַהֵיכָל וְאוֹכְלִין בְּקׇדְשֵׁי קָדָשִׁים וּשְׁיָרֵי מְנָחוֹת? תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר:

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara **raises an objection** to the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan from a *baraita*. **Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira says: From where** is it derived **that if gentiles surrounded the** Temple **courtyard** and were firing projectiles inside to the point that it became impossible to remain in the courtyard on account of the threat, **that the priests enter the Sanctuary and partake of the offerings of the most sacred order and the remainders of** the **meal offerings** while inside the Sanctuary? **The verse states:**