## Pesachim Daf 12a

###### Pesachim 12a:1
[Pesachim 12a:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:1)

וְחַד מִינַּיְיהוּ קָטָעֵי שָׁעָה וּמַשֶּׁהוּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**and one of them errs** by **an hour and a bit.**


###### Pesachim 12a:2
[Pesachim 12a:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:2)

אֲזַל רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוּדָה, אַמְרַהּ לִשְׁמַעְתְּתָא קַמֵּיהּ דְּרָבָא. אָמַר: וּמָה אִילּוּ דָּיְיקִינַן בְּהָנֵי סָהֲדֵי, דְּהַאי דְּקָאָמַר שָׁלֹשׁ — בִּתְחִלַּת שָׁלֹשׁ, וְהַאי דְּקָאָמַר חָמֵשׁ — בְּסוֹף חָמֵשׁ, וְהָוְיָא עֵדוּת מוּכְחֶשֶׁת, וְלָא קָטְלִינַן, וַאֲנַן נֵיקוּם וְנִקְּטֹיל מִסְּפֵקָא?! וְרַחֲמָנָא אָמַר: ״וְשָׁפְטוּ הָעֵדָה״ ״וְהִצִּילוּ הָעֵדָה״!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehuda, went and said the *halakha*** of Abaye **before Rava.** Rava **said** to him that Abaye’s explanation must be rejected: **And were we** to **closely examine** the statements **of these witnesses** and ask them when precisely the incident occurred, and find **that the one who says at three** hours means that it occurred **at the beginning of the third** hour, **and the one who says at five** hours means that it occurred **at the end of the fifth** hour, it would **be contradictory testimony and we would not kill** the accused on the basis of this testimony; **and will we arise and kill** based **on uncertainty?** Although their testimony could be valid, it could also be void. Can the court execute the accused based on that uncertainty? **And** consider that **the Merciful One says** in the Torah: **“And the congregation shall judge…and the congregation shall deliver”** (Numbers 35:24–25), from which it is derived that judges must do everything in their power to save an accused from the death penalty.


###### Pesachim 12a:3
[Pesachim 12a:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:3)

אֶלָּא אָמַר רָבָא: לְדִבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר — אָדָם טוֹעֶה שְׁתֵּי שָׁעוֹת חָסֵר מַשֶּׁהוּ; לְדִבְרֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה — אָדָם טוֹעֶה שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁעוֹת חָסֵר מַשֶּׁהוּ. לְדִבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר — אָדָם טוֹעֶה שְׁתֵּי שָׁעוֹת חָסֵר מַשֶּׁהוּ, מַעֲשֶׂה כִּי הֲוָה, אוֹ בִּתְחִלַּת שְׁתַּיִם אוֹ בְּסוֹף שָׁלֹשׁ, וְחַד מִינַּיְיהוּ קָטָעֵי שְׁתֵּי שָׁעוֹת חָסֵר מַשֶּׁהוּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather, Rava said:** In fact, **according to the statement of Rabbi Meir, a person errs** by **two hours less a bit; according to the statement of Rabbi Yehuda, a person errs** by **three hours less a bit.** The Gemara elaborates: **According to the statement of Rabbi Meir, a person errs** by **two hours less a bit.** How so? **When** the **incident occurred,** it was **either at the beginning of the second** hour **or at the end of the third** hour **and one of** the witnesses **erred by two hours less a bit,** as that is a reasonable discrepancy.


###### Pesachim 12a:4
[Pesachim 12a:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:4)

לְדִבְרֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה — אָדָם טוֹעֶה שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁעוֹת חָסֵר מַשֶּׁהוּ, מַעֲשֶׂה כִּי הֲוָה אוֹ בִּתְחִלַּת שָׁלֹשׁ אוֹ בְּסוֹף חָמֵשׁ, וְחַד מִינַּיְיהוּ קָטָעֵי שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁעוֹת חָסֵר מַשֶּׁהוּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**According to the statement of Rabbi Yehuda, a person errs** by **three hours less a bit.** How so? **When** the **incident occurred,** it was **either in the beginning of the third** hour **or at the end of the fifth** hour, **and one of them errs** by **three hours less a bit.** According to Rabbi Yehuda, that is a reasonable discrepancy.


###### Pesachim 12a:5
[Pesachim 12a:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:5)

תְּנַן: הָיוּ בּוֹדְקִין אוֹתוֹ בְּשֶׁבַע חֲקִירוֹת: בְּאֵיזוֹ שָׁבוּעַ, בְּאֵיזוֹ שָׁנָה, בְּאֵיזֶה חֹדֶשׁ, בְּכַמָּה בַּחֹדֶשׁ, בְּאֵיזֶה יוֹם, בְּאֵיזוֹ שָׁעָה, בְּאֵיזֶה מָקוֹם. (וְתַנְיָא:) מָה בֵּין חֲקִירוֹת לִבְדִיקוֹת? חֲקִירוֹת, אָמַר אֶחָד מֵהֶן ״אֵינִי יוֹדֵעַ״ — עֵדוּתָן בְּטֵילָה. בְּדִיקוֹת, אֲפִילּוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם אוֹמְרִים ״אֵין אָנוּ יוֹדְעִים״ — עֵדוּתָן קַיֶּימֶת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**We learned** in a mishna: The judges of the court **would examine** witnesses **with seven** forms of **interrogation: In which seven-year** Sabbatical cycle of the Jubilee did the incident occur, **in which year** of the seven-year Sabbatical cycle, **in which month** of that year, **on which** date **of that month, on which day** of the week, **at which hour** of the day, **at which place** did the incident occur? **And it was taught** in a *baraita*: **What is** the difference **between interrogations and examinations?** With regard to each of the forms of **interrogation,** if **one of** the witnesses **said: I do not know, their testimony is void.** However, with regard to **examinations, even if** they **both say: We do not know, their testimony is valid.**


###### Pesachim 12a:6
[Pesachim 12a:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:6)

וְהָוִינַן בַּהּ: מַאי שְׁנָא חֲקִירוֹת וּמַאי שְׁנָא בְּדִיקוֹת?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara continues. **And we discussed** this *baraita*: In **what** way are **interrogations different and** in **what** way are **examinations different?** Why is the testimony of a person who cannot answer one of the interrogations void, but his testimony is valid if he cannot answer one of the examinations?


###### Pesachim 12a:7
[Pesachim 12a:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:7)

וְאָמְרִינַן: חֲקִירוֹת, אָמַר אֶחָד מֵהֶן ״אֵינִי יוֹדֵעַ״ — עֵדוּתָן בְּטֵילָה, דְּהָוְיָא לַהּ עֵדוּת שֶׁאִי אַתָּה יָכוֹל לַהֲזִימָּהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And we said** in response: With regard to **interrogations,** if **one of them says: I do not know, their testimony is void, as** this **is testimony that you cannot render as false, conspiring** testimony. Witnesses are determined to be false, conspiring witnesses when other witnesses arrive in court and testify that the first pair of witnesses could not possibly have witnessed the incident in question, as they were at a different place at that time together with them. If a witness says he does not know when the incident occurred or where it occurred, it would be impossible to testify that he was elsewhere and render him a false, conspiring witness. The Torah disqualifies the testimony of a witness who cannot be rendered a false, conspiring witness.


###### Pesachim 12a:8
[Pesachim 12a:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:8)

בְּדִיקוֹת, עֵדוּת שֶׁאַתָּה יָכוֹל לַהֲזִימָּהּ הִיא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
However, with regard to **examinations,** even if the witness cannot remember every detail, **it** remains **testimony that you can render as false, conspiring** testimony. Even without that detail, the second pair of witnesses can still testify that the first pair of witnesses was with them in a different place at that time.


###### Pesachim 12a:9
[Pesachim 12a:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:9)

וְאִי אָמְרַתְּ טָעֵי אִינִישׁ כּוּלֵּי הַאי, חֲקִירוֹת דְּ״אֵיזוֹ שָׁעָה״ נָמֵי עֵדוּת שֶׁאִי אַתָּה יָכוֹל לַהֲזִימָּהּ הִיא, דְּאָמְרִי: מִטְעֵי קָטָעִינַן!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Based on the above, the Gemara returns to discuss the matter of discrepancies in the testimony of the witnesses with regard to the hour that the incident occurred. **And if you say** that **a person errs** by **that much,** e.g., several hours, with regard to the **interrogations of what time** of day the incident occurred, this **is also testimony that you cannot render as false, conspiring** testimony, **for** if other witnesses claim that they were elsewhere at that time, the witnesses can **say: We are mistaken,** and the incident did not actually occur at that time, but a few hours earlier or later. Consequently, it is impossible to prove that they are false, conspiring witnesses.


###### Pesachim 12a:10
[Pesachim 12a:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:10)

דְּיָהֲבִינַן לְהוּ כּוּלֵּי טָעוּתַיְיהוּ. לְרַבִּי מֵאִיר — יָהֲבִינַן לְהוּ מִתְּחִילַּת שָׁעָה רִאשׁוֹנָה עַד סוֹף חָמֵשׁ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara explains **that we give** leeway to the first pair of witnesses for **the entire** duration of the potential margin of **their error.** In order to render them false, conspiring witnesses, the second pair of witnesses must testify that the first witnesses were with them for the entire period during which their testimony would be accepted, despite the discrepancy with regard to the hour in which it occurred. **According to Rabbi Meir, we give** the witnesses who testified that the incident occurred at two or three hours of the day, **from the beginning of the first hour until the end of the fifth** hour. If they testified that the incident occurred in the second hour or the third hour, the court must take into account a mistake of two hours in either direction.


###### Pesachim 12a:11
[Pesachim 12a:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:11)

וּבְדִין הוּא דְּנִיתֵּיב לְהוּ מֵעִיקָּרָא טְפֵי, אֶלָּא בֵּין יְמָמָא לְלֵילְיָא לָא טָעוּ אִינָשֵׁי.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And by right we should give them even more** leeway **at the beginning.** Since one errs by two hours less a bit, if the witnesses testified that the incident occurred at approximately two hours of the day, they might have erred by roughly two hours and the incident actually occurred before sunrise. **However,** since **between day and night people do not err,** and as the witnesses testify that the incident occurred during the second or third hour of the day, it could not have occurred before sunrise.


###### Pesachim 12a:12
[Pesachim 12a:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Pesachim/r/12a:12)

וּלְרַבִּי יְהוּדָה — יָהֲבִינַן לְהוּ מִתְּחִילַּת שָׁעָה רִאשׁוֹנָה וְעַד סוֹף שִׁשִּׁית. וּבְדִין הוּא דְּנִיתֵּיב לְהוּ מֵעִיקָּרָא טְפֵי,

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And according to Rabbi Yehuda, we give** the witnesses a margin of error **from the beginning of the first hour until the end of the sixth** hour. **And by right we should give them even more** leeway **at the beginning,** as according to his opinion one errs by three hours less a bit, and therefore the margin for error should be greater.