## Shabbat Daf 8b

###### Shabbat 8b:1
[Shabbat 8b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:1)

נִתְכַּוֵּון לִשְׁבּוֹת בִּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים, וְהִנִּיחַ עֵירוּבוֹ בְּבוֹר לְמַעְלָה מֵעֲשָׂרָה טְפָחִים — עֵירוּבוֹ עֵירוּב. לְמַטָּה מֵעֲשָׂרָה טְפָחִים — אֵין עֵירוּבוֹ עֵירוּב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
One who **intended to establish his Shabbat** abode **in the public domain** at a specific site must place food sufficient for two meals for that site to be considered his legal residence. **And** if **he placed** the food used for **his *eiruv* in a pit above ten handbreadths,** i.e., less than ten handbreadths below ground level, **his *eiruv* is an *eiruv*.** If he placed the *eiruv* **below ten handbreadths** from ground level**, his *eiruv* is not an *eiruv*.** Because the pit is a private domain and he may not carry the *eiruv* from that private domain to a public domain, where he has established his residence, the *eiruv* is invalid.


###### Shabbat 8b:2
[Shabbat 8b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:2)

הֵיכִי דָּמֵי? אִילֵּימָא בְּבוֹר דְּאִית בֵּיהּ עֲשָׂרָה, וּ״לְמַעְלָה״ — דְּדַלִּאי וְאוֹתְבֵיהּ, וּ״לְמַטָּה״ דְּתַתִּאי וְאוֹתְבֵיהּ, מָה לִי לְמַעְלָה וּמָה לִי לְמַטָּה. הוּא בְּמָקוֹם אֶחָד, וְעֵירוּבוֹ בְּמָקוֹם אַחֵר הוּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara seeks to clarify the details of this case. **What are the** exact **circumstances? If you say** that the *baraita* is referring **to a pit that has ten** handbreadths in depth and the phrase: And he placed it **above** ten handbreadths, means **that he raised** the *eiruv* **and placed it** within ten handbreadths of ground level, and the phrase: **Below** ten handbreadths, means **that he lowered** the *eiruv* **and placed it** ten handbreadths or more below ground level, **what** difference does it make **to me** if the *eiruv* is **above** ten handbreadths **and what** difference does it make **to me** if it is **below** ten handbreadths? In any case, the pit is a private domain, and the principle states that the private domain extends from its lowest point to the sky. There is no difference whether the *eiruv* was placed higher or lower. In any case, **he is in one place,** in the public domain, **and his *eiruv* is in another place,** in the private domain. Since he cannot take the *eiruv* out of the pit, his *eiruv* is not an *eiruv*.


###### Shabbat 8b:3
[Shabbat 8b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:3)

אֶלָּא לָאו בְּבוֹר דְּלֵית בֵּיהּ עֲשָׂרָה, וְקָתָנֵי עֵירוּבוֹ עֵירוּב. אַלְמָא תַּשְׁמִישׁ עַל יְדֵי הַדְּחָק שְׁמֵיהּ תַּשְׁמִישׁ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** is the *baraita* **not** referring to a pit **that does not have in it** a depth of **ten** handbreadths? And the *baraita* should be understood as follows: If he placed his *eiruv* below ten handbreadths, refers to a pit whose lowest point is ten handbreadths or more below ground level. If he placed his *eiruv* above ten handbreadths, refers to a pit that is less than ten handbreadths deep and is not a private domain. **And,** with regard to that case**, it was taught** that **his *eiruv* is an *eiruv*. Consequently, usage under duress** in a pit that is less than ten handbreadths deep **is considered usage,** and a pit of that kind is a full-fledged part of the public domain.


###### Shabbat 8b:4
[Shabbat 8b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:4)

זִמְנִין מְשַׁנֵּי לֵיהּ הוּא וְעֵירוּבוֹ בְּכַרְמְלִית, וְאַמַּאי קָרֵי לַהּ ״רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים״ — לְפִי שֶׁאֵינָהּ רְשׁוּת הַיָּחִיד.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rava suggested various responses to this objection. **At times he would answer him** that it is referring to a case where both **he and his *eiruv* are in a *karmelit*,** i.e., that he intended to establish residence in a *karmelit* and placed his *eiruv* there. The pit is less than ten handbreadths deep, and consequently, both he and his *eiruv* are in the same domain. **And why does** the *baraita* **call** his place of residence **the public domain? Because it is not the private domain.**


###### Shabbat 8b:5
[Shabbat 8b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:5)

וְזִמְנִין מְשַׁנֵּי לֵיהּ, הוּא בִּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים וְעֵירוּבוֹ בְּכַרְמְלִית. וְרַבִּי הִיא, דְּאָמַר כׇּל דָּבָר שֶׁהוּא מִשּׁוּם שְׁבוּת, לֹא גָּזְרוּ עָלָיו בֵּין הַשְּׁמָשׁוֹת.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And at times he would answer him** that it is referring to a case where **he was,** indeed, **in the public domain and his *eiruv* was in a *karmelit*,** as a pit that is not ten handbreadths deep is not part of the public domain, rather it is a *karmelit*. With regard to the question, how can this be considered a legitimate *eiruv* as it is forbidden to carry from a *karmelit* to a public domain as well, this *baraita* **is** in accordance with the opinion of **Rabbi** Yehuda HaNasi**, who said: Anything that** is prohibited on Shabbat and its prohibition is not by Torah law, rather it **is due to a rabbinic decree [*shevut*],** the Sages **did not issue the decree** to apply **during twilight,** which is neither definitive day nor definitive night. Consequently, at the time that the *eiruv* was placed in the *karmelit* it was permissible for him to carry it to the public domain. Since an *eiruv* takes effect even if it is fit for use just one moment during twilight on Shabbat eve, his *eiruv* is effective.


###### Shabbat 8b:6
[Shabbat 8b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:6)

וְלָא תֵּימָא דַּחוֹיֵי קָא מְדַחֵינָא לָךְ, אֶלָּא דַּוְקָא קָאָמֵינָא לָךְ. דִּתְנַן: אִם הָיָה רְקָק מַיִם וּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים מְהַלֶּכֶת בּוֹ, הַזּוֹרֵק לְתוֹכָהּ אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת — חַיָּיב. וְכַמָּה הוּא רְקָק מַיִם — פָּחוֹת מֵעֲשָׂרָה טְפָחִים. וּרְקָק מַיִם שֶׁרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים מְהַלֶּכֶת בּוֹ, הַזּוֹרֵק לְתוֹכוֹ אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת — חַיָּיב.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And** Rava said to Rav Adda bar Mattana: **Do not say that I am just putting you off** with these answers. **Rather,** what **I am saying to you** is **accurate.** The opinion that usage under duress is not considered usage is a bona fide opinion and the suggested answers are appropriate explanations of that *baraita*. **As we learned** in a mishna: **If there was a swamp and the public domain passes through it, one who throws** an object **into it** at a distance of **four cubits is liable** just like anyone who carried four cubits in the public domain. **And how** deep **is** this **swamp?** It is **less than ten handbreadths.** The mishna adds: **And** with regard to **a swamp that the public domain passes through it, one who throws four cubits into** the swamp **is liable.**


###### Shabbat 8b:7
[Shabbat 8b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:7)

בִּשְׁלָמָא ״רְקָק״ ״רְקָק״ תְּרֵי זִימְנֵי, חַד בְּימוֹת הַחַמָּה וְחַד בִּימוֹת הַגְּשָׁמִים. וּצְרִיכָא, דְּאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן בְּימוֹת הַחַמָּה, דַּעֲבִידִי אִינָשֵׁי לְקָרוֹרֵי נַפְשַׁיְהוּ, אֲבָל בִּימוֹת הַגְּשָׁמִים — אֵימָא לָא. וְאִי אַשְׁמְעִינַן בִּימוֹת הַגְּשָׁמִים, אַגַּב דְּמִטְּנִיף מִקְּרֵי וְנָחֵית, אֲבָל בִּימוֹת הַחַמָּה — לָא. צְרִיכָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The difficulty concerning the repetition of the same topic with virtually identical words is clear, and therefore: **Granted,** it is possible to explain, that **swamp swamp was repeated twice; one** case **is** referring to **the summer, and one** case **is** referring to **the rainy season. And it is necessary** to emphasize that this ruling is in effect both in the summer and in the winter. **As, had** the mishna **told us** this *halakha* only **in the summer,** we would have said that since **people commonly** pass through the swamp **to cool themselves,** it is considered part of the public domain. **However, in the rainy season I would have said** it is **not** part of the public domain. And conversely, **had** the mishna **told us** this *halakha* only **in the rainy season,** I would have said that **since he is filthy** anyway, **it happens that he** is not cautious and **enters** into the swamp. **However, in the summer,** when he is not dirty with mud, I would have said that it is **not** part of the public domain. Therefore, **it was necessary** for the mishna to repeat swamp twice, to teach us that this *halakha* applies at all times.


###### Shabbat 8b:8
[Shabbat 8b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:8)

אֶלָּא הִילּוּךְ תְּרֵי זִימְנֵי לְמָה לִי? אֶלָּא לָאו שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ הִילּוּךְ עַל יְדֵי הַדְּחָק — שְׁמֵיהּ הִילּוּךְ, תַּשְׁמִישׁ עַל יְדֵי הַדְּחָק — לָא שְׁמֵיהּ תַּשְׁמִישׁ. שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**However, why do I need** the mishna to state **twice** that the public domain **passes** through that swamp? **Rather, shouldn’t one conclude from this** that **passage**, even when it is **under duress,** and not free and easy, **is considered passage,** but **usage under duress is not considered usage?** It was necessary to emphasize that the public domain actually passes through it. If the multitudes do not pass through it and it was only used under duress, it would not have been considered a public domain. The Gemara concludes: Indeed **conclude from this.**


###### Shabbat 8b:9
[Shabbat 8b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:9)

אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה: הַאי זִירְזָא דְּקָנֵי, רְמָא וְזַקְפֵיהּ רְמָא וְזַקְפֵיהּ — לָא מִיחַיַּיב עַד דְּעָקַר לֵיהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Somewhat related to the case of the barrel discussed earlier which was a case of moving an object without liability, the Gemara cites that **Rav Yehuda said: That bundle of reeds that he stood upright and threw down, stood upright and threw down repeatedly, he is not liable** for carrying it four cubits in the public domain **until he lifts it** off the ground. As long as he did not lift it from the ground, even though he moved it a long way, he did not perform the acts of lifting and placing which are prohibited by Torah law, as at least one part of the bundle always remained on the ground.


###### Shabbat 8b:10
[Shabbat 8b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:10)

אָמַר מָר: אָדָם עוֹמֵד עַל הָאִסְקוּפָּה, נוֹטֵל מִבַּעַל הַבַּיִת וְנוֹתֵן לוֹ, נוֹטֵל מֵעָנִי וְנוֹתֵן לוֹ. הַאי אִסְקוּפָּה מַאי?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**The Master said: A person standing on the threshold may take** an object **from the homeowner** standing in the private domain **and may give** an object **to him.** Similarly, while standing there, **he may take** an object **from a poor person** standing in the public domain **and may give** an object **to him** because there is no element of prohibition or liability in carrying in and carrying out in an exempt domain on Shabbat. The Gemara asks: **This threshold, what** is it; to what type of threshold is it referring? Different thresholds have different halakhic status.


###### Shabbat 8b:11
[Shabbat 8b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:11)

אִילֵּימָא אִסְקוּפַּת רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים — נוֹטֵל מִבַּעַל הַבַּיִת? הָא מַפֵּיק מֵרְשׁוּת הַיָּחִיד לִרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**If you say** that it is referring to **a threshold** that is **the public domain,** i.e., the threshold of an alleyway that is fewer than three handbreadths off the ground and is not covered, and the post that demarcates the parameters of the alleyway is situated between the public domain and the alleyway, how can the *Tosefta* say that **he may take** an object **from the homeowner? Isn’t he carrying out from the private domain to the public domain?**


###### Shabbat 8b:12
[Shabbat 8b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:12)

וְאֶלָּא אִסְקוּפַּת רְשׁוּת הַיָּחִיד — נוֹטֵל מִן הֶעָנִי? הָא קָא מְעַיֵּיל מֵרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים לִרְשׁוּת הַיָּחִיד!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** say that the *Tosefta* is referring to **a threshold** that is **the private domain,** in a case where it is covered, or it is situated between the post that demarcates the parameters of the alleyway and the private domain, or it is ten handbreadths high and its area is at least four by four handbreadths. How then can the *Tosefta* say that **he may take** an object **from a poor person? Isn’t he carrying in from the public domain to the private domain?**


###### Shabbat 8b:13
[Shabbat 8b:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:13)

אֶלָּא אִסְקוּפַּת כַּרְמְלִית — נוֹטֵל וְנוֹתֵן לְכַתְּחִלָּה, סוֹף סוֹף אִיסּוּרָא מִיהָא אִיתָא!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** say that the *Tosefta* is referring to **a threshold** that is a ***karmelit*,** i.e., it is not ten handbreadths high and it is four by four handbreadths; how can the *Tosefta* say that **he may take and give** even ***ab initio*? Ultimately,** in this case, **there is nevertheless a prohibition.** Even though a *karmelit* does not engender liability by Torah law, carrying from it is prohibited by rabbinic law and is certainly not permitted *ab initio*.


###### Shabbat 8b:14
[Shabbat 8b:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:14)

אֶלָּא אִסְקוּפָּה מְקוֹם פָּטוּר בְּעָלְמָא הוּא — כְּגוֹן דְּלֵית בֵּיהּ אַרְבָּעָה עַל אַרְבָּעָה. וְכִי הָא דְּכִי אֲתָא רַב דִּימִי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: מָקוֹם שֶׁאֵין בּוֹ אַרְבָּעָה עַל אַרְבָּעָה טְפָחִים — מוּתָּר לִבְנֵי רְשׁוּת הַיָּחִיד וְלִבְנֵי רְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים לְכַתֵּף עָלָיו, וּבִלְבַד שֶׁלֹּא יַחֲלִיפוּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** say that the *Tosefta* is referring to **a threshold** that is **merely an exempt domain,** and therefore there is no prohibition at all. In what circumstances is it an exempt domain? **In a case where it does not have** an area of **four by four** handbreadths, and it is therefore not considered a domain with regard to liability on Shabbat. **And** that *halakha* is **similar to that** statement made **when Rav Dimi** came from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia and he said that **Rabbi Yoḥanan said: A place that does not have** an area of **four by four handbreadths** and is set apart, **it is permissible for** both **the people of the private domain and for the people of the public domain to** adjust the burden on their **shoulders upon it** on Shabbat, **as long as they do not exchange** objects between them from one domain to the other domain.


###### Shabbat 8b:15
[Shabbat 8b:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Shabbat/r/8b:15)

אָמַר מָר, וּבִלְבַד שֶׁלֹּא יִטּוֹל מִבַּעַל הַבַּיִת וְנוֹתֵן לְעָנִי, מֵעָנִי וְנוֹתֵן לְבַעַל הַבַּיִת. וְאִם נָטַל וְנָתַן — שְׁלָשְׁתָּן פְּטוּרִין. לֵימָא תֶּיהְוֵי תְּיוּבְתָּא דְרָבָא. דְּאָמַר רָבָא: הַמַּעֲבִיר חֵפֶץ מִתְּחִילַּת אַרְבַּע לְסוֹף אַרְבַּע בִּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים — אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁהֶעֱבִירוֹ

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**The Master** also **said** in the *Tosefta:* A person standing on the threshold may take an object from the homeowner and give an object to him, and he may take an object from the poor person or give an object to him, **as long as he does not take** the object **from the homeowner and give** it **to a poor person** or **from a poor person and give** it **to the homeowner. And,** however**, if he took** an object from one **and gave** it to the other, certainly no labor prohibited by Torah law was performed in that case, and all **three of them are exempt.** The Gemara asks: **Say that this will be a conclusive refutation of Rava’s** opinion, **as Rava said: One who transfers an object from the beginning of four** cubits **to the end of four** cubits **in the public domain, even though he transferred it** above the upper boundary of the public domain