## Sukkah Daf 19a

###### Sukkah 19a:1
[Sukkah 19a:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:1)

כִּי פְּלִיגִי אַלִּיבָּא דְּרַב. אַבָּיֵי כְּרַב, וְרָבָא אָמַר לָךְ: עַד כָּאן לָא אָמַר רַב הָתָם אֶלָּא דִּמְחִיצוֹת לְאַכְסַדְרָה הוּא דַּעֲבִידִי, אֲבָל הָכָא דְּלָאו לְהָכִי עֲבִידִי, לָא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**When they disagree** is **according to** the opinion of **Rav. Abaye** holds **in accordance with** the opinion of **Rav:** The edge of the roof descends and seals both in the portico in the field and in the portico that one roofed as a *sukka*. **And Rava** could have **said to you: Rav stated** his opinion **only there,** with regard to a portico in the field, because **the partitions** formed by the descent of the edge of the roof **are** partitions **established for the portico. However, here,** in the case of a *sukka*, **where** the partitions formed by the descent of the edge of the roof **are not** partitions **established for the** portico, **no,** Rav would not say that the edge of the roof descends and seals.


###### Sukkah 19a:2
[Sukkah 19a:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:2)

תְּנַן: וְכֵן חָצֵר הַמּוּקֶּפֶת אַכְסַדְרָה. וְאַמַּאי? נֵימָא פִּי תִקְרָה יוֹרֵד וְסוֹתֵם!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara cites another proof. **We learned** in the mishna: With regard to **a courtyard that is surrounded** on three sides **by a portico,** if there are four cubits beneath the unfit roofing, the *sukka* is unfit. The Gemara asks: **And why** is the *sukka* unfit? **Let us say** that **the edge of the roof descends and seals,** forming a fit partition at the point where the roofing of the *sukka* begins?


###### Sukkah 19a:3
[Sukkah 19a:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:3)

תַּרְגְּמַהּ רָבָא אַלִּיבָּא דְּאַבָּיֵי: כְּשֶׁהִשְׁוָה אֶת קֵירוּיוֹ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rava interpreted** the mishna **in accordance with** the opinion of **Abaye:** It is a case **where one equalized** the level of **its roofing,** i.e., the roofing of the *sukka* with the level of the roof of the portico. Since the edge of the roof of the portico is not visible inside the *sukka*, the principle: The edge of the roof descends and seals, does not apply.


###### Sukkah 19a:4
[Sukkah 19a:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:4)

בְּסוּרָא מַתְנִי לְהָא שְׁמַעְתָּא בְּהַאי לִישָּׁנָא. בְּפוּמְבְּדִיתָא מַתְנִי: סִיכֵּךְ עַל גַּבֵּי אַכְסַדְרָה שֶׁאֵין לָהּ פַּצִּימִין, דִּבְרֵי הַכֹּל פְּסוּלָה. יֵשׁ לָהּ פַּצִּימִין, אַבָּיֵי אָמַר: כְּשֵׁרָה, רָבָא אָמַר: פְּסוּלָה. אַבָּיֵי אָמַר כְּשֵׁרָה — אָמְרִינַן לָבוּד. רָבָא אָמַר פְּסוּלָה — לָא אָמְרִינַן לָבוּד. וְהִלְכְתָא כְּלִישָּׁנָא קַמָּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**In Sura, they** would **teach this *halakha* in that language** cited above. **In Pumbedita they** would **teach** it differently: **If one roofed a portico that does not have posts** on its open side, **everyone agrees** that the *sukka* is **unfit.** In the case of a portico **that has posts** less than three handbreadths apart on its open side, **Abaye said:** The *sukka* is **fit,** and **Rava said:** The *sukka* is **unfit. Abaye said:** The *sukka* is **fit,** as **we say** that the principle of ***lavud*** applies here; the posts are joined and form a partition for both the portico and the *sukka* in the courtyard outside the portico. **Rava said:** The *sukka* is **unfit,** as **we do not say** that the principle of ***lavud*** forms a partition for the *sukka*. The Gemara concludes: **And the *halakha*** is ruled **in accordance with the first version.**


###### Sukkah 19a:5
[Sukkah 19a:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:5)

רַב אָשֵׁי אַשְׁכְּחֵיהּ לְרַב כָּהֲנָא דְּקָא מְסַכֵּךְ עַל גַּבֵּי אַכְסַדְרָה שֶׁאֵין לָהּ פַּצִּימִין. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לָא סָבַר מָר הָא דְּאָמַר רָבָא: יֵשׁ לָהּ פַּצִּימִין כְּשֵׁרָה, אֵין לָהּ פַּצִּימִין פְּסוּלָה! אַחְוִי לֵיהּ, נִרְאֶה מִבִּפְנִים וְשָׁוֶה מִבַּחוּץ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara relates: **Rav Ashi found Rav Kahana, who was placing roofing** for a *sukka* **atop a portico that did not have posts. He said to him: Doesn’t the Master hold** in accordance with **that which Rava said:** If **it has posts,** the *sukka* is **fit;** if **it does not have posts** it is **unfit?** How can you use this as a *sukka*? Rav Kahana **showed him** that in this *sukka* the disparity between the *sukka* and the portico **was visible from the inside and even from the outside.** From outside, the portico and the *sukka* appeared to be one continuous structure. However, from inside, one of the walls of the portico was visibly thicker than the wall of the *sukka*, and that one handbreadth thickness serves as the third wall of the *sukka*.


###### Sukkah 19a:6
[Sukkah 19a:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:6)

אִי נָמֵי, נִרְאֶה מִבַּחוּץ וְשָׁוֶה מִבִּפְנִים.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Alternatively,** in this case that disparity **was visible from the outside and even from the inside.** The exterior walls of the portico and of the *sukka* were not even. From the outside, it was plainly discernible that they were two separate structures. However, from the inside the *sukka* appeared to be a direct extension of the portico with no post protruding. In both cases, the protruding segment serves as the third wall of the *sukka*, which measures one handbreadth, and the *sukka* is fit.


###### Sukkah 19a:7
[Sukkah 19a:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:7)

דְּאִתְּמַר: נִרְאֶה מִבַּחוּץ וְשָׁוֶה מִבִּפְנִים, נִידּוֹן מִשּׁוּם לֶחִי. וְלֶחִי הַיְינוּ פַּצִּימִין.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
This distinction is **as it was stated** in the context of merging courtyards that open into an alleyway that is open on one side to allow carrying there on Shabbat, one must establish a side post on one side of its opening: Any object that protrudes and is **visible from outside** the alleyway **but** is **even** with the wall **on the inside** of the alleyway has legal **status** of a side **post,** since it can be discerned from the outside. **And** the provisions that apply to a side **post** in the case of merging of alleyways **are** the same as those **that** apply to **posts** in the case of *sukka*. Rav Kahana’s *sukka* was essentially a portico with a post, and was fit for use as a *sukka*.


###### Sukkah 19a:8
[Sukkah 19a:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:8)

תָּנָא: פְּסָל הַיּוֹצֵא מִן הַסּוּכָּה — נִידּוֹן כַּסּוּכָּה. מַאי פְּסָל הַיּוֹצֵא מִן הַסּוּכָּה? אָמַר עוּלָּא: קָנִים הַיּוֹצְאִים לַאֲחוֹרֵי סוּכָּה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ **It was taught** in the *Tosefta*: Fit roofing that consists of different kinds of agricultural **waste** products **that extend from the *sukka*** has the legal **status like** that of **the *sukka*.** The Gemara asks: **What is** the meaning of: **Waste** products **that extend from the *sukka*? Ulla said: Branches that extend behind the *sukka*** and are not limited to the area within the *sukka* walls.


###### Sukkah 19a:9
[Sukkah 19a:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:9)

וְהָא בָּעֵינַן שָׁלֹשׁ דְּפָנוֹת! בִּדְאִיכָּא. וְהָא בָּעֵינַן הֶכְשֵׁר סוּכָּה! בִּדְאִיכָּא. וְהָא בָּעֵינַן צִלָּתָהּ מְרוּבָּה מֵחַמָּתָהּ! בִּדְאִיכָּא.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **But don’t we require three walls** to render an area covered with roofing a fit *sukka*? The Gemara answers: It is referring to a case **where there are** three walls. The two side walls of the *sukka* do not end at the middle wall between them; rather, they too extend behind the *sukka*, forming a second *sukka*. The Gemara asks: **But don’t we require** seven by seven handbreadths as the minimum area for **fitness of a *sukka*?** The Gemara answers: It is referring to a case **where there is** the requisite minimum area. The Gemara asks: **But don’t we require** that **its shade exceeds its sunlight?** The Gemara answers: It is referring to a case **where there is** more shade than sunlight.


###### Sukkah 19a:10
[Sukkah 19a:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:10)

אִי הָכִי מַאי לְמֵימְרָא? מַהוּ דְּתֵימָא: הוֹאִיל וּלְגַוַּואי עֲבִידִי וּלְבָרַאי לָא עֲבִידִי — אֵימָא לָא, קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
After noting that the *sukka* has three walls, the requisite area, and sufficient shade, the Gemara asks: **If so, what** purpose is there **to state** this *halakha*? The fact that this *sukka* extends from another is not relevant. The Gemara answers: Nevertheless, there is a novel element in this *halakha*. **Lest you say** that **since,** as evidenced by the placement of the connecting middle wall, **these** walls **were** initially **established for inside** the original *sukka* **but not for outside** the original *sukka*; and therefore you **say no,** the middle wall cannot be considered a wall for the additional *sukka*, Ulla **teaches us** that the initial intention is not relevant.


###### Sukkah 19a:11
[Sukkah 19a:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:11)

רַבָּה וְרַב יוֹסֵף אָמְרִי תַּרְוַויְיהוּ: הָכָא בְּקָנִים הַיּוֹצְאִים לִפְנִים מִן הַסּוּכָּה, וּמָשְׁכָא וְאָזְלָא חֲדָא דּוֹפֶן בַּהֲדַיְיהוּ. מַהוּ דְּתֵימָא: הָא לֵית בַּהּ הֶכְשֵׁר סוּכָּה, קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabba and Rav Yosef both say** with regard to the case in the *Tosefta*: **Here,** it is referring to a case **with branches that extend before the front** entrance **of the *sukka*, and one of the side walls extends together with** the roofing. **Lest you say** that this extension **does not have** the minimum requisite size for the **fitness of a *sukka*,** in terms of its area and number of walls, therefore, Ulla **teaches us** that it is fit because it is considered an extension of the *sukka*.


###### Sukkah 19a:12
[Sukkah 19a:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:12)

רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: לֹא נִצְרְכָה אֶלָּא לְסוּכָּה שֶׁרוּבָּהּ צִלָּתָהּ מְרוּבָּה מֵחַמָּתָהּ, וּמִעוּטָהּ חֲמָתָהּ מְרוּבָּה מְצִלָּתָהּ. מַהוּ דְּתֵימָא: תִּפְּסַל בְּהָךְ פּוּרְתָּא, קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן. וּמַאי יוֹצֵא — יוֹצֵא מֵהֶכְשֵׁר סוּכָּה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabba bar bar Ḥana said** that **Rabbi Yoḥanan said:** The *Tosefta* **was needed only to** teach the case of a *sukka* where in **its majority its shade exceeds its sunlight, and** in **its minority its sunlight exceeds its shade. Lest you say** that since the extension lacks this basic requirement of a *sukka*, it is treated as if it were not there at all, and consequently the entire *sukka* **should be rendered unfit due to that little** area, **therefore,** Ulla **teaches us** that the entire area is one fit *sukka*. The Gemara asks: According to that understanding of the *Tosefta*, **what** is the meaning of: Waste that **extends** from the *sukka*? It means that the roofing **extends** beyond the halakhic parameters for **fitness of a *sukka*.** It does not refer to a physical extension of the *sukka*.


###### Sukkah 19a:13
[Sukkah 19a:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:13)

רַבִּי אוֹשַׁעְיָא אָמַר: לֹא נִצְרְכָה אֶלָּא לִסְכָךְ פָּסוּל פָּחוֹת מִשְּׁלֹשָׁה, בְּסוּכָּה קְטַנָּה. וּמַאי ״יוֹצֵא״ — יוֹצֵא מִתּוֹרַת סוּכָּה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Oshaya said:** This *Tosefta* **was needed only to** teach the case of **unfit roofing** that measures **less than three** handbreadths **in a small *sukka*.** And **what** is the meaning of: Waste that **extends** from the *sukka*? It means that the roofing **extends** beyond the halakhic **status of** a fit ***sukka*;** it is not referring to a physical extension of the *sukka*. Nevertheless, it does not render the entire *sukka* unfit.


###### Sukkah 19a:14
[Sukkah 19a:14](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:14)

מַתְקֵיף לַהּ רַב הוֹשַׁעְיָא: לֹא יְהֵא אֶלָּא אֲוִיר, וַאֲוִיר פָּחוֹת מִשְּׁלֹשָׁה טְפָחִים בְּסוּכָּה קְטַנָּה מִי פָּסֵיל?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Hoshaya strongly objects to this:** What is the novel element in this *Tosefta*? **Let** the status of unfit roofing **be only** as strict **as** the status of empty **space. And does space** measuring **less than three handbreadths in a small *sukka* render** the entire *sukka* **unfit?** If less than three handbreadths of space, which has a stringent measure for rendering the *sukka* unfit, does not render the *sukka* unfit, clearly the same measure of unfit roofing does not render the *sukka* unfit.


###### Sukkah 19a:15
[Sukkah 19a:15](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:15)

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַבָּא: זֶה מִצְטָרֵף וִישֵׁנִים תַּחְתָּיו, וְזֶה מִצְטָרֵף וְאֵין יְשֵׁנִים תַּחְתָּיו.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rabbi Abba said to him:** There is a distinction between unfit roofing and empty space. **This** unfit roofing **combines** with the fit roofing to compose the requisite measure. **And one** may even **sleep beneath it,** since the unfit roofing is nullified by the majority of fit roofing and completely incorporated into it. However, **that** space, although it too **combines** with the fit roofing to comprise the requisite measure of the *sukka*, **one** may **not sleep beneath it,** as it is not transformed into fit roofing. Therefore, there is a novel element in the explanation of Rabbi Hoshaya as well.


###### Sukkah 19a:16
[Sukkah 19a:16](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/19a:16)

וּמִי אִיכָּא מִידֵּי דְּאִצְטְרוֹפֵי מִצְטָרֵף וְהוּא עַצְמוֹ אֵינוֹ כָּשֵׁר? אָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק בֶּן אֶלְיָשִׁב: אִין,

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara questions this contention. **Is there any item that combines** with other items to engender fitness, **but** the item **itself is not fit? Rabbi Yitzḥak ben Elyashiv said: Yes,** that model exists in other areas of *halakha* as well.