## Sukkah Daf 5a

###### Sukkah 5a:1
[Sukkah 5a:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:1)

וְתַנְיָא, רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר: מֵעוֹלָם לֹא יָרְדָה שְׁכִינָה לְמַטָּה, וְלֹא עָלוּ מֹשֶׁה וְאֵלִיָּהוּ לַמָּרוֹם, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״הַשָּׁמַיִם שָׁמַיִם לַה׳ וְהָאָרֶץ נָתַן לִבְנֵי אָדָם״.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**and it is taught** in a *baraita* that **Rabbi Yosei says: The Divine Presence never** actually **descended below, and Moses and Elijah never** actually **ascended to** heaven **on high, as it is stated: “The heavens are the heavens of the Lord, and the earth He gave to the children of man”** (Psalms 115:16), indicating that these are two distinct domains. Apparently, from ten handbreadths upward is considered a separate domain. Consequently, any *sukka* that is not at least ten handbreadths high is not considered an independent domain and is unfit.


###### Sukkah 5a:2
[Sukkah 5a:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:2)

וְלֹא יָרְדָה שְׁכִינָה לְמַטָּה? וְהָכְתִיב: ״וַיֵּרֶד ה׳ עַל הַר סִינַי״! לְמַעְלָה מֵעֲשָׂרָה טְפָחִים. וְהָכְתִיב: ״וְעָמְדוּ רַגְלָיו בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא עַל הַר הַזֵּיתִים״! לְמַעְלָה מֵעֲשָׂרָה טְפָחִים.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And did the Divine Presence never descend below** ten handbreadths? **But isn’t it written: “And God descended onto Mount Sinai”** (Exodus 19:20)? 
The Gemara answers: Although God descended below, He always remained **ten handbreadths above** the ground. Since from ten handbreadths and above it is a separate domain, in fact, the Divine Presence never descended to the domain of this world. 
The Gemara asks: **But isn’t it written: “And on that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives”** (Zechariah 14:4)? The Gemara answers: Here, too, He will remain **ten handbreadths above** the ground.


###### Sukkah 5a:3
[Sukkah 5a:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:3)

וְלֹא עָלוּ מֹשֶׁה וְאֵלִיָּהוּ לַמָּרוֹם? וְהָכְתִיב: ״וּמֹשֶׁה עָלָה אֶל הָאֱלֹהִים״! לְמַטָּה מֵעֲשָׂרָה. וְהָכְתִיב: ״וַיַּעַל אֵלִיָּהוּ בַּסְעָרָה הַשָּׁמָיִם״! לְמַטָּה מֵעֲשָׂרָה. וְהָכְתִיב: ״מְאַחֵז פְּנֵי כִּסֵּא פַּרְשֵׁז עָלָיו עֲנָנוֹ״, וְאָמַר רַבִּי תַּנְחוּם: מְלַמֵּד שֶׁפֵּירַשׂ שַׁדַּי מִזִּיו שְׁכִינָתוֹ וַעֲנָנוֹ עָלָיו! לְמַטָּה מֵעֲשָׂרָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **And did Moses and Elijah never ascend to** the heavens **on high? But isn’t it written: “And Moses went up to God”** (Exodus 19:3)? 
The Gemara answers: Nevertheless, he remained **below ten** handbreadths adjacent to the ground. 
The Gemara asks: **But isn’t it written: “And Elijah went up by a whirlwind heavenward”** (II Kings 2:11)? 
The Gemara answers: Here, too, it was **below ten** handbreadths. 
The Gemara asks: **But isn’t it written: “He grasps the face of the throne, and spreads His cloud upon him”** (Job 26:9)? **And Rabbi Tanḥum said:** This **teaches that the Almighty spread of the radiance of His Divine Presence and of His cloud upon him.** Apparently, Moses was in the cloud with God. 
The Gemara answers: Here, too, it was **below ten** handbreadths.


###### Sukkah 5a:4
[Sukkah 5a:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:4)

מִכׇּל מָקוֹם ״מְאַחֵז פְּנֵי כִּסֵּא״ כְּתִיב! אִישְׁתַּרְבּוֹבֵי אִישְׁתַּרְבַּב לֵיהּ כִּסֵּא עַד עֲשָׂרָה, וּנְקַט בֵּיהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **In any case: “He grasps the face of the throne,” is written,** indicating that Moses took hold of the Throne of Glory. The Gemara rejects this: **The throne was extended for him down to ten** handbreadths **and** Moses **grasped it;** however, he remained below ten handbreadths. And since the Divine Presence speaks to Moses from above the Ark cover ten handbreadths above the ground, clearly a height of ten handbreadths is a distinct domain.


###### Sukkah 5a:5
[Sukkah 5a:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:5)

בִּשְׁלָמָא אָרוֹן תִּשְׁעָה, דִּכְתִיב: ״וְעָשׂוּ אֲרוֹן עֲצֵי שִׁטִּים אַמָּתַיִם וָחֵצִי אׇרְכּוֹ וְאַמָּה וָחֵצִי רׇחְבּוֹ וְאַמָּה וָחֵצִי קוֹמָתוֹ״. אֶלָּא כַּפּוֹרֶת טֶפַח, מְנָלַן? דְּתָנֵי רַבִּי חֲנִינָא: כׇּל הַכֵּלִים שֶׁעָשָׂה מֹשֶׁה, נָתְנָה בָּהֶן תּוֹרָה מִדַּת אׇרְכָּן וּמִדַּת רׇחְבָּן וּמִדַּת קוֹמָתָן. כַּפּוֹרֶת, מִדַּת אׇרְכָּהּ וּמִדַּת רׇחְבָּהּ — נָתְנָה, מִדַּת קוֹמָתָהּ — לֹא נָתְנָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara wonders about the proof offered: **Granted,** the height of the **Ark** was **nine** handbreadths, **as it is written: “And they shall make an Ark of acacia wood; two cubits and a half shall be its length, and a cubit and a half its breadth, and a cubit and a half its height”** (Exodus 25:10), and one and a half cubits equal nine handbreadths. **However, from where do we** derive the fact that the thickness of the **Ark cover** was one **handbreadth?** The Torah never states its dimensions explicitly, **as Rabbi Ḥanina taught:** For **all the vessels that Moses crafted** for the Tabernacle, **the Torah provided** in **their** regard **the dimension of their length, the dimension of their width, and the dimension of their height.** However, for the **Ark cover,** the Torah **provided the dimension of its length and the dimension of its width;** but the Torah **did not provide the dimension of its height.**


###### Sukkah 5a:6
[Sukkah 5a:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:6)

צֵא וּלְמַד מִפָּחוּת שֶׁבַּכֵּלִים, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְעָשִׂיתָ לּוֹ מִסְגֶּרֶת טֹפַח סָבִיב״, מָה לְהַלָּן טֶפַח, אַף כָּאן טֶפַח. וְנֵילַף מִכֵּלִים גּוּפַיְיהוּ! תָּפַשְׂתָּ מְרוּבֶּה — לֹא תָּפַשְׂתָּ, תָּפַשְׂתָּ מוּעָט — תָּפַשְׂתָּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: **Go out and learn from the smallest** dimension mentioned in connection with any **of the** Tabernacle **vessels, as it is stated** with regard to the shewbread table: **“And you shall make unto it a border of a handbreadth around”** (Exodus 25:25). **Just as there,** the frame measures one **handbreadth, so too, here,** the thickness of the Ark cover measures a single **handbreadth.** The Gemara asks: **And let us derive** the thickness of the Ark cover **from** the **vessels themselves,** the smallest of which measures a cubit. The Gemara answers: **If you grasped many, you did not grasp anything; if you grasped few, you grasped something.** If there are two possible sources from which to derive the dimension of the Ark cover, then without conclusive proof one may not presume that the Torah intended to teach the larger dimension. Rather, the presumption is that the Torah is teaching the smaller dimension, which is included in the larger measure.


###### Sukkah 5a:7
[Sukkah 5a:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:7)

וְנֵילַף מִצִּיץ, דְּתַנְיָא: צִיץ דּוֹמֶה כְּמִין טַס שֶׁל זָהָב, וְרָחָב שְׁתֵּי אֶצְבָּעוֹת וּמוּקָּף מֵאֹזֶן לְאֹזֶן, וְכָתוּב עָלָיו שְׁתֵּי שִׁיטִין: ׳יוֹד הֵא׳ מִלְּמַעְלָה, וְ׳קֹדֶשׁ לָמֶד׳ מִלְּמַטָּה. וְאָמַר רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר בְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי: אֲנִי רְאִיתִיו בְּרוֹמִי, וְכָתוּב עָלָיו ״קֹדֶשׁ לַה׳״ בְּשִׁיטָה אַחַת!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: If so, **let us derive** the thickness of the Ark cover **from the frontplate,** which is even smaller than a handbreadth, **as it is taught** in a *baraita*: The **frontplate is a type of plate** made **of gold that is two fingerbreadths wide and stretches from ear to ear. And written upon it are two lines:** The letters ***yod*, *heh*,** *vav*, *heh*, the name of God, **above;** and the word ***kodesh*,** spelled *kuf*, *dalet*, *shin*, followed by the letter ***lamed*, below.** Together it spelled *kodesh laHashem*, meaning: Sacred to the Lord, with *yod*, *heh*, *vav*, *heh* written on the upper line in deference to the name of God. **Rabbi Eliezer, son of Rabbi Yosei, said: I saw** the frontplate in the emperor’s treasury **in Rome,** where it was taken together with the other Temple vessels when the Temple was destroyed, **and upon it was written: Sacred to the Lord, on one line.** Why not derive the thickness of the Ark cover from the frontplate and say that it was only two fingerbreadths?


###### Sukkah 5a:8
[Sukkah 5a:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:8)

דָּנִין כְּלִי מִכְּלִי, וְאֵין דָּנִין כְּלִי מִתַּכְשִׁיט.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara answers: **One derives** the dimension of **a vessel from** the dimension of **a vessel, and one does not derive** the dimension of **a vessel from** the dimension of **an ornament.** The frontplate is not one of the Tabernacle vessels but one of the ornaments of the High Priest.


###### Sukkah 5a:9
[Sukkah 5a:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:9)

וְנֵילַף מִזֵּר. דְּאָמַר מָר: זֵר מַשֶּׁהוּ! דָּנִין כְּלִי מִכְּלִי, וְאֵין דָּנִין כְּלִי מֵהֶכְשֵׁר כְּלִי. אִי הָכִי, מִסְגֶּרֶת נָמֵי הֶכְשֵׁר כְּלִי הוּא! מִסְגַּרְתּוֹ לְמַטָּה הָיְתָה.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara suggests: **Let us derive** the thickness of the Ark cover **from the crown** featured atop several of the Tabernacle vessels, **as the Master said:** This **crown,** with regard to which the Torah did not specify its dimensions, could be **any size.** The Gemara answers: **One derives** the dimension of **a vessel from** the dimension of **a vessel, and one does not derive** the dimension of **a vessel from** the dimension of the **finish of a vessel** that serves decorative purposes. The Gemara asks: **If** it is **so** that one does not derive the dimensions of a vessel from the dimensions of the finish of a vessel, then how can dimensions be derived from **the border** of the table, which **is also** the **finish of a vessel** and not an integral part of the table? The Gemara answers: The **border** of the table **was below,** between the legs of the table, and the tabletop rested upon it. As it supports the table, it is an integral part of the table and not merely decoration.


###### Sukkah 5a:10
[Sukkah 5a:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:10)

הָנִיחָא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מִסְגַּרְתּוֹ לְמַטָּה הָיְתָה, אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מִסְגַּרְתּוֹ לְמַעְלָה הָיְתָה, מַאי אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר? הַאי הֶכְשֵׁר כְּלִי הוּא!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: **This** works out **well according to the one who said** that **its border was below** the tabletop; **however, according to the one who said** that **its border was above** the tabletop, **what can be said?** According to that opinion, **this** border **is** indeed the **finish of a vessel.**


###### Sukkah 5a:11
[Sukkah 5a:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:11)

אֶלָּא: דָּנִין דָּבָר שֶׁנָּתְנָה בּוֹ תּוֹרָה מִדָּה מִדָּבָר שֶׁנָּתְנָה בּוֹ תּוֹרָה מִדָּה, וְאַל יוֹכִיחוּ צִיץ וְזֵר, שֶׁלֹּא נִתְּנָה בָּהֶן תּוֹרָה מִדָּה כְּלָל.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rather,** the thickness of the Ark cover must be derived from a different source. **One derives** the missing dimensions of **an object for which the Torah provided** part of its **dimension,** e.g., the Ark cover, for which the Torah provided the dimensions of length and width, **from an object for which the Torah provided** its **dimension,** e.g., the border of the table. **And the frontplate and the crown, for which the Torah did not provide any dimension at all,** and their dimensions were determined by the Sages, **will not prove** anything. It is certainly appropriate to derive the dimension of the thickness of the Ark cover from that which was stated clearly in the Torah.


###### Sukkah 5a:12
[Sukkah 5a:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:12)

רַב הוּנָא אָמַר, מֵהָכָא: ״עַל פְּנֵי הַכַּפּוֹרֶת קֵדְמָה״, וְאֵין פָּנִים פָּחוֹת מִטֶּפַח.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Huna said** that the thickness of the Ark cover is derived **from here: “Upon the face of [*penei*] the Ark cover on the east”** (Leviticus 16:14), **and there is no face [*panim*]** of a person that measures **less than** one **handbreadth.**


###### Sukkah 5a:13
[Sukkah 5a:13](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Sukkah/r/5a:13)

וְאֵימָא כְּאַפֵּי

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: And why say that the face in the verse is specifically the face of a person? **Say** that the Ark cover is **like the face**