## Zevachim Daf 87b

###### Zevachim 87b:1
[Zevachim 87b:1](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:1)

שֶׁקִּיבְּלוּ פְּסוּלִין וְזָרְקוּ אֶת דָּמוֹ; מַאי, לָאו שֶׁקִּיבְּלוּ פְּסוּלִין וְזָרְקוּ פְּסוּלִין?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
An offering **that** people **unfit** for performing the Temple service **collected and** then **sprinkled its blood** shall not descend from the altar if it ascended. **What, is it not** that the mishna means **that** people **unfit** for performing the Temple service **collected** the blood **and** people **unfit** for performing the Temple service **sprinkled** it as well, which disqualifies it from ascending the altar? But if the collection alone was performed by people unfit for performing the Temple service, although the offering becomes disqualified, those fit to perform the Temple service may sprinkle the blood and sacrifice the offering *ab initio*. The reason, apparently, is that service vessels sanctify disqualified blood such that it may be sprinkled *ab initio*.


###### Zevachim 87b:2
[Zevachim 87b:2](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:2)

לֹא, שֶׁקִּיבְּלוּ פְּסוּלִין. אִי נָמֵי שֶׁזָּרְקוּ פְּסוּלִין.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Reish Lakish rejects this proof: **No,** the mishna may be referring to two independent cases, i.e., **that** people **unfit** for performing the Temple service **collected** the blood, **or that** people **unfit** for performing the Temple service **sprinkled** the blood after it was collected by people who were fit for performing the Temple service. Accordingly, the mishna teaches only that if such offerings ascended the altar they shall not descend after the fact, but service vessels do not sanctify disqualified items such that they are offered *ab initio*.


###### Zevachim 87b:3
[Zevachim 87b:3](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:3)

אֲוִיר מִזְבֵּחַ – כְּמִזְבֵּחַ דָּמֵי, אוֹ לָא? תָּא שְׁמַע: כְּשֵׁם שֶׁהַמִּזְבֵּחַ מְקַדֵּשׁ, כָּךְ כֶּבֶשׁ מְקַדֵּשׁ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
§ The Gemara raises a dilemma: Is the **airspace** above the **altar considered as** the **altar** itself, whereby items that enter this airspace shall not descend from the altar, **or** is it **not** considered like the altar? The Gemara suggests: **Come** and **hear** the mishna, which states: **Just as the altar sanctifies** items, **so too,** the **ramp sanctifies** items, and if they ascended upon it they shall be sacrificed upon the altar and shall not descend.


###### Zevachim 87b:4
[Zevachim 87b:4](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:4)

וְאִי אָמְרַתְּ אֲוִיר מִזְבֵּחַ לָאו כַּמִּזְבֵּחַ דָּמֵי – אֲוִיר כֶּבֶשׁ נָמֵי לָאו כְּכֶבֶשׁ דָּמֵי; הֵיכִי מַסֵּיק לֵיהּ מִכֶּבֶשׁ לְמִזְבֵּחַ? הָוֵה לֵיהּ יָרוּד!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**And if you say** that the **airspace** above the **altar** is **not considered as** the **altar** itself, then the **airspace** above the **ramp as well** should **not** be **considered as the ramp.** If so, **how** can one **elevate** the disqualified limbs of an offering **from** the **ramp to** the **altar?** The moment one elevates a limb from upon the ramp, **it is** considered to have **descended** from the ramp, and all disqualified items that descended shall not be returned.


###### Zevachim 87b:5
[Zevachim 87b:5](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:5)

דְּנָגֵד לֵיהּ. וְהָא אֲוִיר יֵשׁ בֵּין כֶּבֶשׁ לַמִּזְבֵּחַ! רוּבּוֹ לַכֶּבֶשׁ – כַּכֶּבֶשׁ, רוּבּוֹ לַמִּזְבֵּחַ – כַּמִּזְבֵּחַ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara responds: The mishna is referring to a case **where** the priest **drags** the offering up the ramp, but it never enters its airspace. The Gemara challenges: **But** even if he drags it up the ramp, he must still lift it, as **there is a space between** the **ramp and the altar.** The Gemara responds: Since this gap is small, only a minority of the limb of an offering will be located over the gap as it passes from the ramp to the altar. Therefore, when **a majority of** the limb is **on the ramp,** the minority situated above the gap is considered **as** if it is on **the ramp.** Once **a majority of** the limb is **on the altar,** the minority situated above the gap is considered **as** if it is on **the altar.**


###### Zevachim 87b:6
[Zevachim 87b:6](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:6)

תִּפְשׁוֹט מֵהָא – הָא דְּבָעֵי רָמֵי בַּר חָמָא יֵשׁ חִיבּוּר לְעוֹלִין אוֹ לָא, תִּיפְשׁוֹט דְּיֵשׁ חִיבּוּר! הָא לָא קַשְׁיָא, תִּיפְשׁוֹט.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara asks: If so, **resolve from this** mishna **the dilemma that was raised by Rami bar Ḥama: Is there a connection of** limbs that **ascend** upon the altar, i.e., is an offering considered a unit such that even those parts that do not ascend the altar shall be considered as if they are upon it, **or** is there **not,** and each part is considered independent? Based on the previous answer, **resolve** the dilemma by saying **that there is a connection** of limbs. The Gemara responds: **This** is **not difficult,** as one may indeed **resolve** Rami bar Ḥama’s dilemma from here.


###### Zevachim 87b:7
[Zevachim 87b:7](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:7)

מַתְקֵיף לַהּ רָבָא בַּר רַב חָנָן: וְאִי אָמְרַתְּ אֲוִיר מִזְבֵּחַ כַּמִּזְבֵּחַ דָּמֵי, עוֹלַת הָעוֹף דְּפָסְלָה בְּמַחְשָׁבָה הֵיכִי מַשְׁכַּחַתְּ לַהּ?

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rava bar Rav Ḥanan objects to** the assumption that the airspace above the altar is considered as the altar itself: **But if you say** that the **airspace** above the **altar** is **considered as** the **altar** itself, then with regard to **a bird burnt offering that** one **disqualified by** having the **intention** to burn it beyond its designated time, i.e., the day after it was pinched, **how can you find** the circumstances for such a disqualification to take effect?


###### Zevachim 87b:8
[Zevachim 87b:8](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:8)

הָא קַלְטַהּ מִזְבֵּחַ!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
One’s intent to burn an offering beyond its designated time disqualifies it only when he intended to burn it during a time that he may not do so. Since a bird burnt offering is pinched in the airspace above the altar, the **altar** has already **accepted it.** Therefore, even if one delayed burning it until the next day, it does not descend from the altar, like all other offerings that are disqualified by being left overnight.


###### Zevachim 87b:9
[Zevachim 87b:9](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:9)

מַתְקֵיף לַהּ רַב שִׁימִי בַּר אָשֵׁי: אַלְּמָה לָא מַשְׁכַּחַתְּ לַהּ? כְּגוֹן דְּאָמַר: הֲרֵינִי מוֹלְקָהּ עַל מְנָת לְהוֹרִידָהּ לְמָחָר וּלְהַעֲלוֹתָהּ וּלְהַקְטִירָהּ.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
**Rav Shimi bar Ashi objects to** the objection raised by Rava bar Rav Ḥanan: **Why** is it **not** possible for a bird burnt offering to be disqualified through the intention to burn it beyond its designated time? **You find it** in a case **where he says: I am hereby pinching it in order to take it down** from the altar **tomorrow and** thereafter **sacrifice it and burn it.** If he takes it down from the altar the next day, he may not subsequently return it there for burning, as all disqualified items that have descended from the altar shall not be returned to it. Accordingly, even if the airspace above the altar is considered as the altar itself, a bird burnt offering can still be disqualified with such intention.


###### Zevachim 87b:10
[Zevachim 87b:10](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:10)

הָנִיחָא לְרָבָא, דְּאָמַר: לִינָה מוֹעֶלֶת בְּרֹאשׁ הַמִּזְבֵּחַ; אֶלָּא לְרַבָּה, דְּאָמַר: אֵין לִינָה מוֹעֶלֶת בְּרֹאשׁ הַמִּזְבֵּחַ – לֵיתָא לְמַחְשַׁבְתּוֹ!

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
The Gemara questions the objection of Rav Shimi bar Ashi: **This works out well according to** the opinion of **Rava, who says** that the disqualification of **being left overnight** is **effective** even when the offering is **at the top of the altar.** Accordingly, if he were to take the bird burnt offering down from the altar the next day, he may not restore it to the altar for burning. **But** this is difficult **according to** the opinion of **Rabba, who says:** The disqualification of **being left overnight** is **not effective** when the offering is **at the top of the altar,** and therefore even if the next day he removed the bird burnt offering from the altar, he must return it there to burn it, as it has not been disqualified. If so, **his intention is not** significant, i.e., he does not disqualify a bird burnt offering with such intention.


###### Zevachim 87b:11
[Zevachim 87b:11](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:11)

לְרַבָּה נָמֵי מַשְׁכַּחַתְּ לַהּ – כְּגוֹן דְּאָמַר: הֲרֵינִי מוֹלְקָהּ עַל מְנָת לְהוֹרִידָהּ קוֹדֵם עַמּוּד הַשַּׁחַר, וּלְהַעֲלוֹתָהּ לְאַחַר עַמּוּד הַשַּׁחַר.

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rav Shimi bar Ashi responds: **According to** the opinion of **Rabba as well, you find** a case of a bird burnt offering that is disqualified due to one’s intention, **such as where he says: I am hereby pinching it in order to take it down** from the altar **before dawn and** to then **sacrifice it after dawn.** In such a case, where the offering is removed from the altar before dawn, even Rabba would agree that one’s intention renders a bird burnt offering disqualified by being left overnight.


###### Zevachim 87b:12
[Zevachim 87b:12](https://torahapp.org/share/book/Zevachim/r/87b:12)

לְהָךְ גִּיסָא מִיהָא תִּיפְשׁוֹט – דַּאֲוִיר מִזְבֵּחַ כְּמִזְבֵּחַ דָּמֵי; דְּאִי סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ אֲוִיר מִזְבֵּחַ לָאו כְּמִזְבֵּחַ דָּמֵי,

**William Davidson Edition - English:**
Rav Shimi bar Ashi adds: Irrespective of the validity of the proof of Rava bar Rav Ḥanan, **in any event, resolve** the issue **to this side,** i.e., in favor of the claim **that** the **airspace** above the **altar** is **considered as** the **altar** itself. **As if** it **enters your mind** that the **airspace** above the **altar** is **not considered as** the **altar,**